7 ms·

There seems to have been a cultural shift in the United States as of lately. Just a few years back most companies was afraid of "choosing" side, and kept things

by vegardx 12y ago

There seems to have been a cultural shift in the United States as of lately. Just a few years back most companies was afraid of "choosing" side, and kept things pretty neutral. But look at recent Disney movies and Coca-Cola commercials. They all give the impression that from a marketing perspective it's better to take a stand.

eevilspock 12y ago
Not a recent cultural shift, but one that has been steadily making headway over a very long time. A recent tipping point, perhaps.
DanBC 12y ago
Where the homesexual agenda in Disney movies? I'd prefer specific examples rather than just handwavey nonsense.
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  IMO it's going a bit far with the interpretation, but Elsa in the movie Frozen has been fairly widely speculated as being an allegory on coming out.
  - jusben1369 12y ago
    It's funny because Frozen was a massive hit in Japan by all accounts. There it had nothing to do with coming out. Instead women really loved the women power and could relate to having to conform to a certain image etc. So perhaps that's the greatness of Frozen. Each culture makes it their own.
- protonfish 12y ago
  The last two Disney movies I watched (Frozen and Maleficent) both were resolved not by romantic love of a man and woman, but with the the love between two women. I am NOT saying Ana and Elsa were lesbians, but that Disney seems to be moving away from the prince/princess formula - that the ultimate feat of existence is getting married to someone of the opposite gender. If this is a "homosexual agenda" or not, I say good riddance. That crap is life poison to impressionable young girls.
  - phkahler 12y ago
    >> The last two Disney movies I watched (Frozen and Maleficent) both were resolved not by romantic love of a man and woman, but with the the love between two women. Have not see Maleficent, but I have heard nuts claiming Frozen was some kind of pro-gay film. It is resolved by (non-romantic) love between family members. I saw the movie twice in theater with my kid and couldn't find ANY indication of gay-ness. Anna ends up going after a man. The main plot is about self acceptance and embracing who you really are. While that metaphor can easily be applied to being gay (in todays world), I suspect the only people who instinctively made the connection are either gay or terribly anti-gay. Gotta love Elsa, her and Merida are the best.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - mytochar 12y ago
      I haven't seen Maleficent either; but, that was exactly the impression I came out of the movie. That said, I have a gay friend and he said it was a movie about homosexuality and coming out of the closet and accepting yourself. I didn't read into it that at all. I don't know which intended meaning Disney had when they adapted the story into a script and animation; but it seems to resonate with different people differently (as is often the case with movies). I saw it in staunch contrast to the historical Disney "Princess" narrative, where happily-ever-after doesn't mean marriage, remarking how they openly mocked the idea of falling in love with someone and marrying them after a single day. I'd have to ask him directly, but he could have easily seen the movie from Elsa's perspective, the woman imbued with a gift, or curse. Both perspectives are presented in the movie, if memory serves me, and it entirely depends on the person speaking at the time. The parents thought it was a curse. The trolls saw it differently. Whatever the reality of her situation, she fled, and then accepted who she was, and eventually defeated the parts of her gift that had made it so sad to have. Perhaps, then, it is both. It was a movie that was a push away from the 'True Love's Kiss' story of Disney olde, as much as it was a story about accepting who you are. And the whole story is bound together by the very real presence of the two sister's familial love for one another.
  - 12y ago
- Kudos 12y ago
  > homesexual agenda Agenda? People only use that term when they're trying to imply something is somehow pushing homosexuality on the weak minded.
  - worklogin 12y ago
    Aren't you? Whether it's good or not, aren't you pushing homosexuality on everyone, saying, "It's not OK to disapprove of our lifestyle"?
    - tommorris 12y ago
      What "lifestyle" is that, pray tell?
    - ceejayoz 12y ago
      The context of someone saying "homosexual agenda" is generally "they're trying to convert our children!" paranoia, not just general disapproval.
      - jshevek 12y ago
        You list two contexts. a) "they're trying to convert our children!" paranoia b) general disapproval. There are at least two more: c) dispassionate acknowledgement d) outright support I absolutely, strongly support the LGBT community's agenda of making gay marriage legal, everywhere. Just because one hateful group of people uses a phrase in one particular way, doesn't mean we need to give them ownership of it, nor assume that everyone using the same term feels the same way they do.
    - Arnor 12y ago
      No... They simply acknowledge that the roughly 4% of the population that identify with the LGBT community exists. It's a pretty far push from acknowledging existence to "pushing homosexuality on everyone." I'll leave as an exercise to the reader to identify the mental gymnastics required to come up with the phrase: "pushing homosexuality on everyone"
- UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
  Frozen. Had a Swedish guy (shop owner) living with another guy and they both had a bunch of kids. Described the other guy and kids as his "family." See point #5 in this article's list: http://mic.com/articles/79455/7-moments-that-made-frozen-the-most-progressive-disney-movie-ever http://mic.com/articles/79455/7-moments-that-made-frozen-the...
  - cronin101 12y ago
    Unrelated clarification but, judging by the lutefisk, the shop owner is actually Norwegian and not Swedish. Just a heads up so you don't make the mistake in less forgiving Scandinavian company next time ;-)
    - robin_reala 12y ago
      What’s the differences between lutfish in Norway and Sweden? I’ve eaten it in southern Sweden with it presented to me as traditionally Swedish.
      - dagw 12y ago
        The main difference is that Swedes spell it Lutfisk and Norwegians Lutefisk. Lutfish is just as traditional and (un)popular in both Norway and Sweden, and as far as I can tell the base recipe is basically the same in both countries. The only difference between the regions are the condiments and side dishes it is served with.
        kiiski 12y ago
        I think Norwegians make it from cod, while Swedes (and we Finns) use ling.
  - JeremyNT 12y ago
    > Had a Swedish guy (shop owner) living with another guy and they both had a bunch of kids. Described the other guy and kids as his "family." This is quite a stretch. As the father of a young child I have seen Frozen more times than I am proud to admit, and while it could be that the large man in the sauna is the shopkeeper's husband, he could just as easily be the shopkeeper's son, while the smaller woman in the scene is the shopkeeper's wife. Even if you assume this to canonically be a gay relationship in a Disney movie (and it would, I suppose, be the first), it's a tiny throwaway moment in the life of a minor character which is easy to miss completely. This is hardly "taking a stand" as the grandparent post suggested.
- DonHopkins 12y ago
  Yeah, what's the deal with your use of the loaded dog whistle term "agenda"? Listen to Fox News much? And with your presumption that the answer you're likely to get on HN might be "handwavey nonsense"? Or are you implying that Fantasia's Sorcerer and Micky Mouse are gay just because they wave their hands around to conjure up colorful butterflies, broomsticks, comets, waves and storm clouds?
  - lotharbot 12y ago
    I got the impression that DanBC's question was genuine, and meant the opposite of what you accuse him of implying. People have been accusing Disney of "pushing the gay agenda" (negatively) for years -- but those same people have not been able to point to concrete examples of people with same-sex attraction, they've only been able to point to BS like Mickey Mouse having a high voice. Now in this thread people are suggesting Disney is "taking a stand" (positive phrasing of the same issue) -- but they still seem to be lacking concrete examples. It seems inappropriate to credit Disney for "taking a stand" (or to criticize them for "pushing an agenda") without being able to point to an unambiguous, romantically-involved same-sex couple. I suspect DanBC is like me -- I'd like to see an unambiguous example before categorizing Disney as "taking a stand".
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      Disney have been taking a stand for years now. There have been Christian boycotts of Disney for well over a decade, mainly because of their support for same-sex couples. http://edition.cnn.com/US/9706/18/baptists.disney/ http://edition.cnn.com/US/9706/18/baptists.disney/ http://www.bpnews.net/11130 http://www.bpnews.net/11130
lentil_soup 12y ago
I don't have any data to back it up, but I guess it's just companies following the trend on public opinion? They didn't before because the majority was against it, they do now because the majority is for it. Not sure if that means taking a stand, though.
- Bpit 12y ago
  They probably analysed it from a business perspective and thought it makes sense. Fine for me as long it's for the right cause.
- Bpit 12y ago
  They probably analysed it from a business perspective and thought it makes sense. Fine for me as long it's for the right cause.
- cheepin 12y ago
  It's because the 'for' crowd is enthusiastic, so advertisers want to channel a little of their enthusiasm to promote a product. The 'against' crowd is largely apathetic and doesn't associate with 'anti' particularly strongly compared to the 'pro' crowd. On the flip side, anything perceived as anti-gay in business blows up with negative press and talks of boycotts. With Apple's demographic, this will definitely be considered a plus.
JibberMeTimbers 12y ago
There is also the recent Android commercial as well!

by vegardx 12y ago

eevilspock 12y ago

Not a recent cultural shift, but one that has been steadily making headway over a very long time. A recent tipping point, perhaps.

DanBC 12y ago

Where the homesexual agenda in Disney movies? I'd prefer specific examples rather than just handwavey nonsense.

ceejayoz 12y ago
IMO it's going a bit far with the interpretation, but Elsa in the movie Frozen has been fairly widely speculated as being an allegory on coming out.
- jusben1369 12y ago
  It's funny because Frozen was a massive hit in Japan by all accounts. There it had nothing to do with coming out. Instead women really loved the women power and could relate to having to conform to a certain image etc. So perhaps that's the greatness of Frozen. Each culture makes it their own.
protonfish 12y ago
The last two Disney movies I watched (Frozen and Maleficent) both were resolved not by romantic love of a man and woman, but with the the love between two women. I am NOT saying Ana and Elsa were lesbians, but that Disney seems to be moving away from the prince/princess formula - that the ultimate feat of existence is getting married to someone of the opposite gender. If this is a "homosexual agenda" or not, I say good riddance. That crap is life poison to impressionable young girls.
- phkahler 12y ago
  >> The last two Disney movies I watched (Frozen and Maleficent) both were resolved not by romantic love of a man and woman, but with the the love between two women. Have not see Maleficent, but I have heard nuts claiming Frozen was some kind of pro-gay film. It is resolved by (non-romantic) love between family members. I saw the movie twice in theater with my kid and couldn't find ANY indication of gay-ness. Anna ends up going after a man. The main plot is about self acceptance and embracing who you really are. While that metaphor can easily be applied to being gay (in todays world), I suspect the only people who instinctively made the connection are either gay or terribly anti-gay. Gotta love Elsa, her and Merida are the best.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - mytochar 12y ago
    I haven't seen Maleficent either; but, that was exactly the impression I came out of the movie. That said, I have a gay friend and he said it was a movie about homosexuality and coming out of the closet and accepting yourself. I didn't read into it that at all. I don't know which intended meaning Disney had when they adapted the story into a script and animation; but it seems to resonate with different people differently (as is often the case with movies). I saw it in staunch contrast to the historical Disney "Princess" narrative, where happily-ever-after doesn't mean marriage, remarking how they openly mocked the idea of falling in love with someone and marrying them after a single day. I'd have to ask him directly, but he could have easily seen the movie from Elsa's perspective, the woman imbued with a gift, or curse. Both perspectives are presented in the movie, if memory serves me, and it entirely depends on the person speaking at the time. The parents thought it was a curse. The trolls saw it differently. Whatever the reality of her situation, she fled, and then accepted who she was, and eventually defeated the parts of her gift that had made it so sad to have. Perhaps, then, it is both. It was a movie that was a push away from the 'True Love's Kiss' story of Disney olde, as much as it was a story about accepting who you are. And the whole story is bound together by the very real presence of the two sister's familial love for one another.
- 12y ago
Kudos 12y ago
> homesexual agenda Agenda? People only use that term when they're trying to imply something is somehow pushing homosexuality on the weak minded.
- worklogin 12y ago
  Aren't you? Whether it's good or not, aren't you pushing homosexuality on everyone, saying, "It's not OK to disapprove of our lifestyle"?
  - tommorris 12y ago
    What "lifestyle" is that, pray tell?
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    The context of someone saying "homosexual agenda" is generally "they're trying to convert our children!" paranoia, not just general disapproval.
    - jshevek 12y ago
      You list two contexts. a) "they're trying to convert our children!" paranoia b) general disapproval. There are at least two more: c) dispassionate acknowledgement d) outright support I absolutely, strongly support the LGBT community's agenda of making gay marriage legal, everywhere. Just because one hateful group of people uses a phrase in one particular way, doesn't mean we need to give them ownership of it, nor assume that everyone using the same term feels the same way they do.
  - Arnor 12y ago
    No... They simply acknowledge that the roughly 4% of the population that identify with the LGBT community exists. It's a pretty far push from acknowledging existence to "pushing homosexuality on everyone." I'll leave as an exercise to the reader to identify the mental gymnastics required to come up with the phrase: "pushing homosexuality on everyone"
UnoriginalGuy 12y ago
Frozen. Had a Swedish guy (shop owner) living with another guy and they both had a bunch of kids. Described the other guy and kids as his "family." See point #5 in this article's list: http://mic.com/articles/79455/7-moments-that-made-frozen-the-most-progressive-disney-movie-ever http://mic.com/articles/79455/7-moments-that-made-frozen-the...
- cronin101 12y ago
  Unrelated clarification but, judging by the lutefisk, the shop owner is actually Norwegian and not Swedish. Just a heads up so you don't make the mistake in less forgiving Scandinavian company next time ;-)
  - robin_reala 12y ago
    What’s the differences between lutfish in Norway and Sweden? I’ve eaten it in southern Sweden with it presented to me as traditionally Swedish.
    - dagw 12y ago
      The main difference is that Swedes spell it Lutfisk and Norwegians Lutefisk. Lutfish is just as traditional and (un)popular in both Norway and Sweden, and as far as I can tell the base recipe is basically the same in both countries. The only difference between the regions are the condiments and side dishes it is served with.
      - kiiski 12y ago
        I think Norwegians make it from cod, while Swedes (and we Finns) use ling.
- JeremyNT 12y ago
  > Had a Swedish guy (shop owner) living with another guy and they both had a bunch of kids. Described the other guy and kids as his "family." This is quite a stretch. As the father of a young child I have seen Frozen more times than I am proud to admit, and while it could be that the large man in the sauna is the shopkeeper's husband, he could just as easily be the shopkeeper's son, while the smaller woman in the scene is the shopkeeper's wife. Even if you assume this to canonically be a gay relationship in a Disney movie (and it would, I suppose, be the first), it's a tiny throwaway moment in the life of a minor character which is easy to miss completely. This is hardly "taking a stand" as the grandparent post suggested.
DonHopkins 12y ago
Yeah, what's the deal with your use of the loaded dog whistle term "agenda"? Listen to Fox News much? And with your presumption that the answer you're likely to get on HN might be "handwavey nonsense"? Or are you implying that Fantasia's Sorcerer and Micky Mouse are gay just because they wave their hands around to conjure up colorful butterflies, broomsticks, comets, waves and storm clouds?
- lotharbot 12y ago
  I got the impression that DanBC's question was genuine, and meant the opposite of what you accuse him of implying. People have been accusing Disney of "pushing the gay agenda" (negatively) for years -- but those same people have not been able to point to concrete examples of people with same-sex attraction, they've only been able to point to BS like Mickey Mouse having a high voice. Now in this thread people are suggesting Disney is "taking a stand" (positive phrasing of the same issue) -- but they still seem to be lacking concrete examples. It seems inappropriate to credit Disney for "taking a stand" (or to criticize them for "pushing an agenda") without being able to point to an unambiguous, romantically-involved same-sex couple. I suspect DanBC is like me -- I'd like to see an unambiguous example before categorizing Disney as "taking a stand".
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    Disney have been taking a stand for years now. There have been Christian boycotts of Disney for well over a decade, mainly because of their support for same-sex couples. http://edition.cnn.com/US/9706/18/baptists.disney/ http://edition.cnn.com/US/9706/18/baptists.disney/ http://www.bpnews.net/11130 http://www.bpnews.net/11130

lentil_soup 12y ago

I don't have any data to back it up, but I guess it's just companies following the trend on public opinion? They didn't before because the majority was against it, they do now because the majority is for it. Not sure if that means taking a stand, though.

Bpit 12y ago
They probably analysed it from a business perspective and thought it makes sense. Fine for me as long it's for the right cause.
Bpit 12y ago
They probably analysed it from a business perspective and thought it makes sense. Fine for me as long it's for the right cause.
cheepin 12y ago
It's because the 'for' crowd is enthusiastic, so advertisers want to channel a little of their enthusiasm to promote a product. The 'against' crowd is largely apathetic and doesn't associate with 'anti' particularly strongly compared to the 'pro' crowd. On the flip side, anything perceived as anti-gay in business blows up with negative press and talks of boycotts. With Apple's demographic, this will definitely be considered a plus.

JibberMeTimbers 12y ago

There is also the recent Android commercial as well!