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I wonder how carefully crafted this line was: ... I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me. It seems a particularly odd thing to slip

by Jedd 12y ago

I wonder how carefully crafted this line was: ... I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me. It seems a particularly odd thing to slip in, on so many levels.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dhimes 12y ago
That caught my eye also, but his support of that thesis was quite nice.
- listic 12y ago
  I never noticed the mention of 'God' and had to re-read it.
netcan 12y ago
That jarred me too. I recently spoke to some gay religious people and it struck me as very odd. I'm biased, of course. I tend to think religion gets far more forgiveness than it deserves in a huge number of contexts. It was interesting though, in a bunch of ways. When I hear a statement like this it makes me think of Africans converting to Mormonism or Jews joining European far right movements. I realize that there are perspectives through which this is not contradictory. Mormonism had views of Africans that only lagged behind mainstream opinions by a decade or two. The far right parties are more interested in Islam or African migration these days… Still, I can't help it. It give me the heebie jeebies.
- _yosefk 12y ago
  I recently read an article in English talking about homophobia being widespread in Russia "despite the Russians having lived through the progressive social experiment of communism". Calling it a "progressive social experiment" gives it far more forgiveness than it deserves in my opinion... From which I conclude that it's easy to forgive when we basically like the idea/movement/etc., and easy to see undeserved forgiveness when we basically dislike it.
  - netcan 12y ago
    I agree. I think there's a related point though where socialism or any political ideology never really got near religion: becoming part of people's identity. People without a shred of personal beliefs nearer to Catholic cannon than to Protestantism or secular perspectives will continue thinking of themselves as Catholic. If you are Catholic it's easier to forgive Catholicism than it is to forgive The Church. Nationalist creed (I am French or American) is the only thing that comes close. I think there's also a taboo about criticizing people's religious identity and by extension their religion that was learned many wars. Stalinism is publicly criticized in a ways that Christianity or Islam would never be. But regarding this comment, it's the personal level that gets me. Homosexuals place in 2014 was achieved despite objection and obstruction of the overwhelming majority of our religious institutions and text. They are now partially and begrudgingly coming around to where the public already is. They are being patted on the back for any lukewarm embrace of homosexuals. Gays taking them back is offensive to me. It's like a wife embracing an abusive husband that almost killed her when he gets out on parol.
- k-mcgrady 12y ago
  I would agree with you but only when you look at religion from a broad perspective. If you actually speak to people who are religious you will quickly find that there are a lot of things they don't believe or follow in their religion. Eventually religions catch up, although that takes too long (similar to how laws often take too long to catch up to what most people do and think should be legal). I think the key is that the 'fundamental' people you often hear about that think 'homosexuality is an abomination' are a small minority. The people who are fine with it usually aren't seen on the news because their opinion isn't inflammatory.
IkmoIkmo 12y ago
Indeed, the mark of a well thought out and carefully crafted message that's not just personal, but also about necessary PR. If that's what it takes to get people on-board this generation, I don't mind. But I hope lines like that can be omitted one day. Doesn't it just look incredibly silly?
- pionar 12y ago
  >Indeed, the mark of a well thought out and carefully crafted message that's not just personal, but also about necessary PR. If that's what it takes to get people on-board this generation, I don't mind. But I hope lines like that can be omitted one day. Doesn't it just look incredibly silly? Maybe he didn't want to omit it. Maybe it's not PR, but instead his actual feelings. Maybe he is religious. So, it's all cool and all that he's gay (which it is), but he mentions God and now you're all "Why can't he just keep that to himself?" That seems a little hypocritical to me.
  - LesZedCB 12y ago
    He's saying he hopes one day it's not a culturally jarring thing to say "I'm gay and I'm religious." That should just be normal and accepted.
    - ptx 12y ago
      Or maybe that one day it will no longer be necessary to follow "I'm gay" or "the earth revolves around the sun" with "...but don't worry, there exists an interpretation of your ancient books according to which I would still be compliant with the commands of your God!"
mrcwinn 12y ago
An odd thing to slip in? He is, as far as I've gathered, a deeply religious gay man. If his point is to imply those things are not at odds, then I don't think this sentence's inclusion is odd at all.
- exelius 12y ago
  Gay people aren't stereotypes who fit into one mold. I used to live next to a gay couple who were the among most conservative people I've ever met. I think that's the exact point of the sentence, to say "we're not all the same; it's just one thing about me" without sounding like an angsty teenager. That said, it wasn't exactly a secret that Tim Cook is gay. Though it was always handled as more of a "this is something that can inform your understanding of him as a business leader" as opposed to "omg it's a scandal! He's gay and running the biggest company in the world!" His sexuality is probably a bigger deal among Alabama boosters than the tech community though.
eevilspock 12y ago
He's a religious man. It wasn't "slipped in". Read the following sentences. Brilliant.
praptak 12y ago
To me it came across as purely figurative. IMHO the usual phrases like "thank God it's not raining" are pretty much detached from the religious context. Is it different in US?
- socialist_coder 12y ago
  "Thank God it's not raining" is completely different from saying "... the greatest gifts God has given me." The first is just a frivolous small talk type comment. Non-religious people would say this. It's part of the common US vocabulary. The second is much more serious, and the speaker is actually thanking God for how he is. A non-religious person would never say it. Religious people do this type of thing all the time in the US. Just look at 1 example- sports. The amount of American pro-athletes who are religious is astounding. Many athletes will seriously thank God after doing something well in a sporting event. I'm very very anti-theist and I still have a lot of Christians on my Facebook, and some of them are constantly thanking God or praising Jesus for some good thing that happened in their life. The amount of cars that have religious stickers on them is incredible. Crosses, the Jesus fish, some Biblical reference, a Christian brand, etc- you see them constantly. Maybe it's not like that in the Bay Area, but that is an exception. I live in Germany now and I've counted a total of TWO cars in 2 years that had any kind of Religious sticker. So, yeah, Christianity is everywhere in the US. I pray for the day that this is not true.
  - stephencanon 12y ago
    > The amount of American pro-athletes who are religious is astounding. Many athletes will seriously thank God after doing something well in a sporting event. This is just a very clever thought pattern to confirm the American mythos of the self-made man and avoid giving credit to teammates, coaches, etc. "God made me great" is a way to take credit for yourself while maintaining the appearance of humility (no one can really call you out on it, either, because it's just your religion). Politicians use it all the time too.
    - JoeAltmaier 12y ago
dodyg 12y ago
Tim Cook is a Christian. This is a message to the Church.
- piratebroadcast 12y ago
  And is Southern as well - From Alabama. Big church influence down there.
  - notduncansmith 12y ago
    Indeed there is. Did not know Tim was from Alabama though, represent!
    - danielki 12y ago
      He went to Auburn
      - notduncansmith 12y ago
        Well, that would explain why Apple's been headed down the tubes since he took over.
- boiledfig 12y ago
  I don't understand what the Church are able to do given that their teachings are based on the Bible and not society
- blktiger 12y ago
  I have a hard time thinking of anyone as Christian if they ignore the basic tenants of what the Bible says. Homosexuality is very clearly spelled out as wrong. So are plenty of other things of course and the Bible doesn't specify homosexual behavior as any more or less wrong than any other sinful act. Christians shouldn't be treating homosexuals any different than anyone else, but that includes letting people know that God views that behavior as sin.
  - 12y ago
gmays 12y ago
I guess it depends on how you look at it. He's a "son of the South" and a self-described religious man, so this makes sense. But this also makes sense from a PR perspective because according to American political polls being an atheist is "worse" than being black, gay, a women, etc. It's apparently largely unforgivable to be godless. So, some may be surprised to learn he's gay, but then take some solace in the fact that he still praises the same god they do. In a way this is the perfect way to assuage the exact audience this revelation might offend because, you know, God loves all his children. This really won't be a big deal. Some extreme groups will make some noise, but that's about it. I was in the Marine Corps when they repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Everyone thought it'd be a big deal. They repealed it...nobody cared.
- jimmytucson 12y ago
  I've never come across a poll that asks, "Which of these do you consider worst: being gay, black, female, or atheist?" but I doubt the answer to a question like that would be useful anyway. I'm a little amused by you guys trying to work out all the "PR" angles Cook could be trying to exploit by mentioning his faith without even considering that it's is a genuinely important part of who he is.
  - mikeyouse 12y ago
    Per your first paragraph, they usually frame it as, "Would you vote for a candidate with the following background:" as a way to gauge personal feelings on a matter. A Gallup one recently: http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/atheists-muslims-bias-presidential-candidates.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/atheists-muslims-bias-pres...
    - jimmytucson 12y ago
      Those, I've seen. But saying you wouldn't vote for a presidential candidate who is atheist is a lot different than saying that it's "unforgivable" to be atheist, or that atheists are worse than blacks, gays, and women. Maybe I'm just being pedantic but I don't think a poll about how people would vote for the president is a good indicator of how people feel about atheists in comparison to other groups of people. I don't even think the latter is quantifiable.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- hox 12y ago
  Who is to say that one's definition of "God" must conform to what a church teaches?
  - netcan 12y ago
    If we get into this sort of semantic aerobics, we are just talking about words. The context of the statement is a message to the general public, in America. The language he used has a particular meaning in the context.
    - hox 12y ago
      I'm not trying to get into semantics. I attend Catholic mass every Sunday and identify as part of the Catholic community, but that doesn't mean I let centuries old teachings dictate my own personal beliefs. That is the difference between church and faith. If I were to make the same statement Tim made, I would be making it from my viewpoint, not that of you or anyone else.
      - chm 12y ago
        Why don't you identify yourself simply as a "religious person" and consider yourself part of the worldwide community of religious persons? I don't understand how you can not agree with a particular faith's concept of "God" while still considering yourself belonging to said faith. Again, my objection is one of incomprehension. How can one reject the teachings of a religion while still identifying with said group?
tommorris 12y ago
Not particularly. Religious people frame things in religious terms. I'm an atheist and a gay man. I think being gay is a good thing in my life. That is to say, if there were a pill I could take that would turn me straight, I wouldn't take it. Despite harassment and discrimination (which still happens, even in happy tolerant cities like London—most recent incident, 3 weeks ago, someone shouting "queers!" out of the window while I was walking down the street late at night holding hands with a guy), the point is that in spite of huge amounts of cultural and religious programming to the opposite, a lot of gay people have found themselves embracing their sexuality and considering it not just a not-bad thing but an actively good thing in their life. That's what Cook is getting at: that sentiment can be expressed in secular terms (like I just have) or in religious terms.
crocowhile 12y ago
In America you can come out as gay but perhaps not yet as atheist.
dragonwriter 12y ago
Er, why? Because it conflicts with other people's opinions of what God values? Hate to say this, but religious people say things of the general form "I consider X among the greatest gifts God has given me" (or something with similar meaning) where X conflicts with the view of God's priorities held by some other religious people all the time.
leoc 12y ago
The fact that various kinds of people will consider it an odd thing to say is probably just the reason why Cook went out of his way to say it.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  I admit I am enjoying watching people try to wrap their heads around the idea that a gay techie ceo could be religious. The world has a wide range of people, and they don't fit into neat little boxes.
arrrg 12y ago
Is it really so hard to believe that he might just be religious? Jesus Christ, atheists are the worst (as can be seen here in this thread). And I say that as an atheist …
- anonbanker 12y ago
  Am I the only one that always finds it funny when athiests (myself included) use the name of a religious deity when making an exclamation? That being said, it is really difficult for most people to get past the cognitive dissonance that comes from being mass-denied "salvation" by the followers of a religion (Islam, Christianity, Hinduism) for being a homosexual, and yet, still believing in the invisible man in the sky that supposedly dictated these edicts. Disclosure: I'm LGBTQ, athiest, and will defend to the death the right for anyone to believe in things I do not.
  - vacri 12y ago
    It's funny on the surface, but really a lot of it is just another form of profanity: something you say when exasperated or surprised. I have an agnostic friend, not religious in the least, who is always saying 'good lord!'. He's not actually invoking jesus in any way, it's just a saying that sound good to him. Dara O'Briain says in one of his stand-up events that "catholicism is the stickiest religion in the world. In Ireland, even the atheists are catholic". He's really talking about the cultural crossovers from the observance of catholicism, not actual belief in the religion itself. For the record, I am a strong atheist, and I think people should be able to speak about ideas freely, including ideas I disagree strongly with, but I'm not willing to actually die for someone else's right to speak a bunch of nonsense about a man in the sky and how many raisins you get for following him. :)
    - anonbanker 12y ago
      First they came for the Raisin God believers, and I said nothing, because I do not believe in the Raisin God.... I think we know the rest of it. suffice it to say that I react violently to a censorship of belief, even if I do not share them. I'm a little saddened to think that I might be in a minority.
Istof 12y ago
it might be because he won't reproduce?

by Jedd 12y ago

I wonder how carefully crafted this line was: ... I consider being gay among the greatest gifts God has given me. It seems a particularly odd thing to slip in, on so many levels.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

dhimes 12y ago

That caught my eye also, but his support of that thesis was quite nice.

listic 12y ago
I never noticed the mention of 'God' and had to re-read it.

netcan 12y ago

That jarred me too. I recently spoke to some gay religious people and it struck me as very odd. I'm biased, of course. I tend to think religion gets far more forgiveness than it deserves in a huge number of contexts. It was interesting though, in a bunch of ways. When I hear a statement like this it makes me think of Africans converting to Mormonism or Jews joining European far right movements. I realize that there are perspectives through which this is not contradictory. Mormonism had views of Africans that only lagged behind mainstream opinions by a decade or two. The far right parties are more interested in Islam or African migration these days… Still, I can't help it. It give me the heebie jeebies.

_yosefk 12y ago
I recently read an article in English talking about homophobia being widespread in Russia "despite the Russians having lived through the progressive social experiment of communism". Calling it a "progressive social experiment" gives it far more forgiveness than it deserves in my opinion... From which I conclude that it's easy to forgive when we basically like the idea/movement/etc., and easy to see undeserved forgiveness when we basically dislike it.
- netcan 12y ago
  I agree. I think there's a related point though where socialism or any political ideology never really got near religion: becoming part of people's identity. People without a shred of personal beliefs nearer to Catholic cannon than to Protestantism or secular perspectives will continue thinking of themselves as Catholic. If you are Catholic it's easier to forgive Catholicism than it is to forgive The Church. Nationalist creed (I am French or American) is the only thing that comes close. I think there's also a taboo about criticizing people's religious identity and by extension their religion that was learned many wars. Stalinism is publicly criticized in a ways that Christianity or Islam would never be. But regarding this comment, it's the personal level that gets me. Homosexuals place in 2014 was achieved despite objection and obstruction of the overwhelming majority of our religious institutions and text. They are now partially and begrudgingly coming around to where the public already is. They are being patted on the back for any lukewarm embrace of homosexuals. Gays taking them back is offensive to me. It's like a wife embracing an abusive husband that almost killed her when he gets out on parol.
k-mcgrady 12y ago
I would agree with you but only when you look at religion from a broad perspective. If you actually speak to people who are religious you will quickly find that there are a lot of things they don't believe or follow in their religion. Eventually religions catch up, although that takes too long (similar to how laws often take too long to catch up to what most people do and think should be legal). I think the key is that the 'fundamental' people you often hear about that think 'homosexuality is an abomination' are a small minority. The people who are fine with it usually aren't seen on the news because their opinion isn't inflammatory.

IkmoIkmo 12y ago

Indeed, the mark of a well thought out and carefully crafted message that's not just personal, but also about necessary PR. If that's what it takes to get people on-board this generation, I don't mind. But I hope lines like that can be omitted one day. Doesn't it just look incredibly silly?

pionar 12y ago
>Indeed, the mark of a well thought out and carefully crafted message that's not just personal, but also about necessary PR. If that's what it takes to get people on-board this generation, I don't mind. But I hope lines like that can be omitted one day. Doesn't it just look incredibly silly? Maybe he didn't want to omit it. Maybe it's not PR, but instead his actual feelings. Maybe he is religious. So, it's all cool and all that he's gay (which it is), but he mentions God and now you're all "Why can't he just keep that to himself?" That seems a little hypocritical to me.
- LesZedCB 12y ago
  He's saying he hopes one day it's not a culturally jarring thing to say "I'm gay and I'm religious." That should just be normal and accepted.
  - ptx 12y ago
    Or maybe that one day it will no longer be necessary to follow "I'm gay" or "the earth revolves around the sun" with "...but don't worry, there exists an interpretation of your ancient books according to which I would still be compliant with the commands of your God!"

mrcwinn 12y ago

An odd thing to slip in? He is, as far as I've gathered, a deeply religious gay man. If his point is to imply those things are not at odds, then I don't think this sentence's inclusion is odd at all.

exelius 12y ago
Gay people aren't stereotypes who fit into one mold. I used to live next to a gay couple who were the among most conservative people I've ever met. I think that's the exact point of the sentence, to say "we're not all the same; it's just one thing about me" without sounding like an angsty teenager. That said, it wasn't exactly a secret that Tim Cook is gay. Though it was always handled as more of a "this is something that can inform your understanding of him as a business leader" as opposed to "omg it's a scandal! He's gay and running the biggest company in the world!" His sexuality is probably a bigger deal among Alabama boosters than the tech community though.

eevilspock 12y ago

He's a religious man. It wasn't "slipped in". Read the following sentences. Brilliant.

praptak 12y ago

To me it came across as purely figurative. IMHO the usual phrases like "thank God it's not raining" are pretty much detached from the religious context. Is it different in US?

socialist_coder 12y ago
"Thank God it's not raining" is completely different from saying "... the greatest gifts God has given me." The first is just a frivolous small talk type comment. Non-religious people would say this. It's part of the common US vocabulary. The second is much more serious, and the speaker is actually thanking God for how he is. A non-religious person would never say it. Religious people do this type of thing all the time in the US. Just look at 1 example- sports. The amount of American pro-athletes who are religious is astounding. Many athletes will seriously thank God after doing something well in a sporting event. I'm very very anti-theist and I still have a lot of Christians on my Facebook, and some of them are constantly thanking God or praising Jesus for some good thing that happened in their life. The amount of cars that have religious stickers on them is incredible. Crosses, the Jesus fish, some Biblical reference, a Christian brand, etc- you see them constantly. Maybe it's not like that in the Bay Area, but that is an exception. I live in Germany now and I've counted a total of TWO cars in 2 years that had any kind of Religious sticker. So, yeah, Christianity is everywhere in the US. I pray for the day that this is not true.
- stephencanon 12y ago
  > The amount of American pro-athletes who are religious is astounding. Many athletes will seriously thank God after doing something well in a sporting event. This is just a very clever thought pattern to confirm the American mythos of the self-made man and avoid giving credit to teammates, coaches, etc. "God made me great" is a way to take credit for yourself while maintaining the appearance of humility (no one can really call you out on it, either, because it's just your religion). Politicians use it all the time too.
  - JoeAltmaier 12y ago

dodyg 12y ago

Tim Cook is a Christian. This is a message to the Church.

piratebroadcast 12y ago
And is Southern as well - From Alabama. Big church influence down there.
- notduncansmith 12y ago
  Indeed there is. Did not know Tim was from Alabama though, represent!
  - danielki 12y ago
    He went to Auburn
    - notduncansmith 12y ago
      Well, that would explain why Apple's been headed down the tubes since he took over.
boiledfig 12y ago
I don't understand what the Church are able to do given that their teachings are based on the Bible and not society
blktiger 12y ago
I have a hard time thinking of anyone as Christian if they ignore the basic tenants of what the Bible says. Homosexuality is very clearly spelled out as wrong. So are plenty of other things of course and the Bible doesn't specify homosexual behavior as any more or less wrong than any other sinful act. Christians shouldn't be treating homosexuals any different than anyone else, but that includes letting people know that God views that behavior as sin.
- 12y ago

gmays 12y ago

I guess it depends on how you look at it. He's a "son of the South" and a self-described religious man, so this makes sense. But this also makes sense from a PR perspective because according to American political polls being an atheist is "worse" than being black, gay, a women, etc. It's apparently largely unforgivable to be godless. So, some may be surprised to learn he's gay, but then take some solace in the fact that he still praises the same god they do. In a way this is the perfect way to assuage the exact audience this revelation might offend because, you know, God loves all his children. This really won't be a big deal. Some extreme groups will make some noise, but that's about it. I was in the Marine Corps when they repealed Don't Ask, Don't Tell. Everyone thought it'd be a big deal. They repealed it...nobody cared.

jimmytucson 12y ago
I've never come across a poll that asks, "Which of these do you consider worst: being gay, black, female, or atheist?" but I doubt the answer to a question like that would be useful anyway. I'm a little amused by you guys trying to work out all the "PR" angles Cook could be trying to exploit by mentioning his faith without even considering that it's is a genuinely important part of who he is.
- mikeyouse 12y ago
  Per your first paragraph, they usually frame it as, "Would you vote for a candidate with the following background:" as a way to gauge personal feelings on a matter. A Gallup one recently: http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/atheists-muslims-bias-presidential-candidates.aspx http://www.gallup.com/poll/155285/atheists-muslims-bias-pres...
  - jimmytucson 12y ago
    Those, I've seen. But saying you wouldn't vote for a presidential candidate who is atheist is a lot different than saying that it's "unforgivable" to be atheist, or that atheists are worse than blacks, gays, and women. Maybe I'm just being pedantic but I don't think a poll about how people would vote for the president is a good indicator of how people feel about atheists in comparison to other groups of people. I don't even think the latter is quantifiable.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

hox 12y ago
Who is to say that one's definition of "God" must conform to what a church teaches?
- netcan 12y ago
  If we get into this sort of semantic aerobics, we are just talking about words. The context of the statement is a message to the general public, in America. The language he used has a particular meaning in the context.
  - hox 12y ago
    I'm not trying to get into semantics. I attend Catholic mass every Sunday and identify as part of the Catholic community, but that doesn't mean I let centuries old teachings dictate my own personal beliefs. That is the difference between church and faith. If I were to make the same statement Tim made, I would be making it from my viewpoint, not that of you or anyone else.
    - chm 12y ago
      Why don't you identify yourself simply as a "religious person" and consider yourself part of the worldwide community of religious persons? I don't understand how you can not agree with a particular faith's concept of "God" while still considering yourself belonging to said faith. Again, my objection is one of incomprehension. How can one reject the teachings of a religion while still identifying with said group?

tommorris 12y ago

Not particularly. Religious people frame things in religious terms. I'm an atheist and a gay man. I think being gay is a good thing in my life. That is to say, if there were a pill I could take that would turn me straight, I wouldn't take it. Despite harassment and discrimination (which still happens, even in happy tolerant cities like London—most recent incident, 3 weeks ago, someone shouting "queers!" out of the window while I was walking down the street late at night holding hands with a guy), the point is that in spite of huge amounts of cultural and religious programming to the opposite, a lot of gay people have found themselves embracing their sexuality and considering it not just a not-bad thing but an actively good thing in their life. That's what Cook is getting at: that sentiment can be expressed in secular terms (like I just have) or in religious terms.

crocowhile 12y ago

In America you can come out as gay but perhaps not yet as atheist.

dragonwriter 12y ago

Er, why? Because it conflicts with other people's opinions of what God values? Hate to say this, but religious people say things of the general form "I consider X among the greatest gifts God has given me" (or something with similar meaning) where X conflicts with the view of God's priorities held by some other religious people all the time.

leoc 12y ago

The fact that various kinds of people will consider it an odd thing to say is probably just the reason why Cook went out of his way to say it.

waterlesscloud 12y ago
I admit I am enjoying watching people try to wrap their heads around the idea that a gay techie ceo could be religious. The world has a wide range of people, and they don't fit into neat little boxes.

arrrg 12y ago

Is it really so hard to believe that he might just be religious? Jesus Christ, atheists are the worst (as can be seen here in this thread). And I say that as an atheist …

anonbanker 12y ago
Am I the only one that always finds it funny when athiests (myself included) use the name of a religious deity when making an exclamation? That being said, it is really difficult for most people to get past the cognitive dissonance that comes from being mass-denied "salvation" by the followers of a religion (Islam, Christianity, Hinduism) for being a homosexual, and yet, still believing in the invisible man in the sky that supposedly dictated these edicts. Disclosure: I'm LGBTQ, athiest, and will defend to the death the right for anyone to believe in things I do not.
- vacri 12y ago
  It's funny on the surface, but really a lot of it is just another form of profanity: something you say when exasperated or surprised. I have an agnostic friend, not religious in the least, who is always saying 'good lord!'. He's not actually invoking jesus in any way, it's just a saying that sound good to him. Dara O'Briain says in one of his stand-up events that "catholicism is the stickiest religion in the world. In Ireland, even the atheists are catholic". He's really talking about the cultural crossovers from the observance of catholicism, not actual belief in the religion itself. For the record, I am a strong atheist, and I think people should be able to speak about ideas freely, including ideas I disagree strongly with, but I'm not willing to actually die for someone else's right to speak a bunch of nonsense about a man in the sky and how many raisins you get for following him. :)
  - anonbanker 12y ago
    First they came for the Raisin God believers, and I said nothing, because I do not believe in the Raisin God.... I think we know the rest of it. suffice it to say that I react violently to a censorship of belief, even if I do not share them. I'm a little saddened to think that I might be in a minority.

Istof 12y ago

it might be because he won't reproduce?