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Poynt – Smart payment terminal
- glifchits 12y agoIt seems like a good time for this product. Payments feel like the wild west right now. A reader that can potentially handle all protocols is a safe investment in the future.
- freehunter 12y agoPoynt already exists. Can I use Poynt to find retailers who are using Poynt? https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.poynt.android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.poynt.andr...
- ppalavilli 12y agoHi - they are not related to each other in any way. Poynt.co or GetPoynt.com is the new Smart Payment Terminal that was announced today. https://getpoynt.com/about https://getpoynt.com/about
- Plough_Jogger 12y agoNo wifi?
- el_benhameen 12y agohttps://getpoynt.com/specs https://getpoynt.com/specs Yes wifi.
- ents 12y agoGo to the 19th second of the video.
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- bentruyman 12y agoIt supports NFC. So, yes.
- deweller 12y agoApple Pay is supported. > Does the Smart Terminal accept payments by Apple Pay? > Yes, the terminal accepts Apple Pay since the iPhone securely communicates with the terminal through NFC. We here at Poynt made our first Apple Pay payment with our Smart Terminal on the morning the software was released to the world. It was a very exciting moment for us!
- johladam 12y agoIf someone from Poynt is on, what are the features that make this better than competing products? I've used Shopify for doing some PoS setups, but I'm having a hard time looking at where Poynt fits in. Other than being cheaper, it lacks some of the things that make Shopify great, namely cash handling and connecting to a back office system.
- ppalavilli 12y agoHi, I work for Poynt on the PoyntOS and applications. First thing first, Poynt Smart Terminal is a Secure Payment Terminal at the core that provides credit card payment processing functionality to any merchant that needs to accept payments in their stores. This is analogous to the traditional payment terminals that you might probably notice every day at a lot of merchant stores (cafes, salons, grocery stores, etc.). Poynt Smart Terminal enhances the credit card payment processing functionality by supporting more payment methods (MSR/NFC/EMV/QR Code/etc.) so the merchant doesn't need to worry about carrying multiple devices in the store and be able to serve more customers. In addition to that, Poynt Smart Terminal runs on Secure PoyntOS (powered by Android) to provide an application platform and framework for developers to build apps and solutions for the merchants and distribute through Poynt. Developers can take advantage of the PoyntOS to build unified solutions for the merchants that run on the same device where they are used to process payments (unlike various solutions today in the market that require additional hardware like ipads, dongles, etc.). Shopify is an online platform that allows developers to build solutions for their merchants hosted online or on devices. Now with Poynt Smart Terminal, developers can build PoS apps using Shopify platform that run on Poynt Smart Terminal too. So I would probably say they are complementary, not competing. Cheers!
- tylercubell 12y agoWhat's to stop somebody from stealing this right off the counter and gaining access to customers' data?
- efiftythree 12y agoMost places I've traveled to outside of the US have devices similar to this that staff carry around a restaurant to complete the payment process table side. They've all been PIN+Chip devices as well. Aside from that one would hope that they aren't storing PII or financial data on the device itself.
- iancarroll 12y agoYou can do the same thing with, well, any credit card machine... Go into any SMB and there's a good chance the credit card reader is independent of the POS system.
- rtanaka 12y agoA very valid concern. To begin with, while our terminal is Android based we have taken numerous steps to lock this device down. Side loading apks is not possible nor is arbitrary access via adb. On top of that, we take great lengths to protect consumer data. In addition to full PCI compliance data is fully encrypted on the device. And if that's not enough, there are several anti-tamper mechanisms that will trigger and lock down the device even further upon physical instrusion. In terms of physical theft we are actively looking into an option to physically secure the device (think kensington). Our plan is to have a good solution for this before our merchants go live.
- luisbebop 12y agoYou are not PA-DSS or PCI certified. Where are the links to your letters of approval?
- rtanaka 12y agoWe are in the process of both PA-DSS for our cloud services and PCI approval for the device. This is the primary reason we are not shipping to merchants until next year. We have line of site to certification and we would not (and can not) ship to merchants until this is complete.
- ctz 12y agoThis is the first EMV payments terminal I've seen that allows PIN entry using a touch screen. Is that really allowed by EMV, as a tamper-evident PIN pad?
- caissy 12y agoI've seen a few merchants using a touch screen, including a few Gap stores in Montreal.
- notatoad 12y agoYeah, the touchscreen terminal that GAP uses is pretty common. Canada Post uses it too, and i know i've seen it in some other places.
- robbiet480 12y agoBest Buy has PIN entry via touch screen
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- thesimon 12y agoDoesn't it make it easier to spy? Because you know where the numbers of the pin are located, you don't even need to look at the keys, but can easily cover it with your hands to prevent "shoulder surfers". If I have to look where the keys are located, I can't really cover the pad and it'll be a lot slower and not more secure.
- rtanaka 12y agoI've always felt like it's harder to spy on an LCD screen due to the limited viewing angles as opposed to physical buttons. And the physical layout of the PIN pad should be similar so it should be a smooth transition. The device will also be PCI PTS approved so it will be on par in terms of physical and logical security.
- cbhl 12y agoI'm unable to watch the video from my Android phone.
- fenguin 12y agoHi, thanks for letting us know -- are you still having problems? We enabled the embedded video on mobile devices a little while ago.
- cbhl 12y agoIt works fine when I open the page with my phone held vertically. When I hold the phone horizontally the button doesn't seem to work though. Opening the video with the phone held vertically and then rotating the phone once the video loads works fine, however.
- cbhl 12y agoOne of my concerns is that it appears the door to change the receipt roll is on the bottom of the device. Does this mean I have to shut the device off and flip it over if it runs out of receipt paper to print a receipt for a customer?
- ppalavilli 12y agoit's actually in the front of the device as you see on the website (https://getpoynt.com/ https://getpoynt.com/) and the button to open the printer door is on the side. The door opens forward and you can load the paper from the front (no need to turn it upside down). We will try to post videos of the paper loading as soon as we can.
- rtanaka 12y agopoynt employee here. you can open the device and insert a new roll of paper without flipping it over or turning off the device.
- headgasket 12y agoAnything to keep the mass from ditching the plastic, cause when that happens, VISA, MC and co are in jeopardy.
- saosebastiao 12y agoThe credit card processors do far more than just issue magic pieces of plastic. The plastic itself is probably the least significant aspect of their business model.
- headgasket 12y agoThe business model relies on a monopoly, an information monopoly. If the mass's interaction at POS is with a software or a hardware that potentially allows id-ing the patron, preferential pricing becomes possible, security is anon issue -- it seriously damages the value of the middleman. So that the secure element(yeah right) that's on your plastic or your phone only communicates with OSes and HW that limits the ID-ing of the cx and provides the strict minimum of info to your POS is the critical part, in my view.
- saosebastiao 12y agoIf privacy were really the concern, people would pay with cash. They always have, and always will. It is accepted everywhere, is the definition of liquidity, and is virtually untraceable. At best, in-person swiping of physical credit cards is a compromise that people make that gives away some of that privacy (your card provides your name, and can be used to verify your address) in exchange for something more valuable: 1) near immediate payment resolution 2) fraud protection 3) insurance against bad products and vendors - you can almost always get your money back if something goes wrong 4) credit accounts 5) points/miles/cash-back, at the expense of the vendor
- headgasket 12y agoHow many different merchants to do you deal with on a regular basis? What is the risk of fraud or of bad product and or bad vendors when both ends know each other? Why introduce a 3rd party in those transactions that gives back a fraction of its fee to the payer? (5) Instead why not reward repeat business with preferential pricing? (not directly possible but attempted via loyalty programs that cost a lot to deploy) The credit is provided by the issuing bank (4). It can exist independently of the credit card network. And with any electronic means, 1 is pretty much a given. Credit 3rd parties still have a reason d'être if a solution that shortcuts VISA and MC when both ends know each other catches on. A Credit 3rd party is needed as an insurance policy when two unknown parties do a transaction; that insurance is bound to cost more than today given less volume; but it could be efficient if pricing would be market driven instead of diluted in 100-1 day to day transactions. Thanks to the down voters, BTW. Again HN is showing openness to look at things from a totally non conventional angle. I think I'll log off for good. So long, and thanks for all the fish!
- bravo22 12y agoInteresting merchant terminal -- but it seems to be little more than a pretty rendering and physical mock-up right now. I like how the first guy puts his card in, takes it out AND THEN punches in his PIN, which is exactly how PIN & Chip doesn't work. I would have hoped they'd at least be familiar with the process. It looks to me like a mobile computer strapped to a terminal. I'm not sure why this is better than having a terminal + iPad or something similar but I'm not the target demographic. I see many other issues with it: - Hardware development is hard and long. This looks to be little more than a physical mock-up. For example datasheet lists "Ethernet" is connectivity options but there is no ethernet port visible on the body. - BLE & GSM antennas are exactly where you wouldn't put either of those. Here is tip: You can't put an antenna behind an LCD. They have metal backings. - Shouldn't QR & Barcode Scanner be pointing UP? You have very limited field of view when it is pointing down. - Getting EMV and FIPS certified are going to take a long long time. Granted they could buy that firmware off the shelf to accelerate the process.
- Siecje 12y agoSome ATMs require you to take your card out before entering your PIN. Or are they using the magnetic strip?
- toomuchtodo 12y agoThey're caching the magnetic strip data.
- pbreit 12y agoIn the USA you always key in the PIN after swiping/inserting/removing the card.
- bravo22 12y agoIf you are using magnetic strip you're correct. For PIN & chip the PIN is sent to the card and verified by the card and the resulting "signature" is sent to the bank. The card has to be in for PIN entry. An employee, above, said that it is for entering tip. Which would make more sense, but then the card would have to be inserted after the total amount I imagine but I can see how they would have a slightly different flow. Personally, I would want any terminal that I use to show me the final amount that I am going to pay before I put in my card. Lest I pay, walk away and the cashier adds her own tip.
- sitnik 12y agoLooks cool to me.
- luisbebop 12y agoThis device is insecure. It is going to take a long time to get the PCI/EMV certifications. Besides that how do you handle the certification of new applications running side by side with your payment application? Everytime you deploy a new application you should re certificate the entire stack, by the PCI standards. Nice concept, but you have a long road ahead before competing with VeriFone, Ingenico, PAX, Miura shuttle and others.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- ppalavilli 12y agoHi - I work for Poynt on the PoyntOS and Payment interfaces - so maybe I can provide some clarity without going into too much of our IP. As mentioned on our site (https://getpoynt.com/specs https://getpoynt.com/specs), we have two separate subsystems - one for Android and the other for secure payment processing. All the payments (EMV/NFC/MSR), secure key (including acquirer keys) management, P2PE encryption, EMV/PCI, etc. are handled by the secure processor. There are no other applications that can run on this secure processor other than the signed and certified applications. On the Android side, Poynt's Secure service is the only service that's capable of communicating with the Payment Processor to initiate card reading (EMV/NFC/MSR/others) and pass through the encrypted data it receives to the merchant's acquirer. All the 3rd party applications run independent of the Poynt's Secure Service and when they need to collect a payment, they do so through our Poynt Payment Fragments to facilitate the Payment flows. (See here for information on how it works: https://getpoynt.com/developers/terminal#2.3 https://getpoynt.com/developers/terminal#2.3 Poynt Payment Fragments). So as you can see, we are able to keep the security domains separate and thereby able to handle PCI certification in a much more graceful way. Obviously they are some complexities but choosing a certifiable payment processor board was one of many ways we are able to deliver a secure solution. Cheers!
- notatoad 12y agoHow are you securing the PIN entry? It looks like that happens on the same screen as the random 3rd-party apps get to run on, leaving open the potential for an app to intercept the PIN. As i understand the PCI stuff, anything that the PIN hits is fully in-scope.
- bravo22 12y agoInteresting to see Osama Bedier listed as one of the people. He is the guy who ran PayPal's merchant terminal integration efforts, left for Google Wallet, and then left Wallet. I think there was a lawsuit filed against him and Google by PayPal the day of Wallet's launch, claiming Google stole their secrets. No idea how that turned out; though I imagine it was a PR move on PayPal's part.
- Mikeb85 12y agoAnd here I thought the other Poynt was pivoting or reinventing itself. http://www.poynt.com/ http://www.poynt.com/ Probably not the best idea to launch with a name identical to another start-up that also has apps on all major platforms...
- tomheg 12y agoIs Poynt classified as a 'handheld' terminal to address the privacy shield requirement in PCI PTS?
- shayanbahal 12y agoI would love to have one to code a nice bitcoin payment gateway on it :) anyone interested to collaborate?
- fayez 12y agoIf you decide to build something on our platform, please fill out the form at http://goo.gl/forms/dgwMwDysAv http://goo.gl/forms/dgwMwDysAv to start a conversation with us. Good luck!