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Can we please drop the "cool kids" cliche? It's a tired generalization. Clearly at this point both architectures work, it's childish to see this as an argument

by tericho 12y ago

Can we please drop the "cool kids" cliche? It's a tired generalization. Clearly at this point both architectures work, it's childish to see this as an argument for server-side rendering. Obviously it works, so do client MVC systems. The value in this article is the humble detailing of their mistakes that many of us also experience in our careers.

matthewmacleod 12y ago
I think part of that is a reaction to how many people jumped on to the client-side JS framework bandwagon very early, because it was "the next big thing", but before the tools were ready for production. I've had to deal with more than my fair share of crappy, hacked-together Ember apps that were developed like this. There have been too many breaking changes to upgrade, performance is bad, an they're full of hacks to work around deficiencies that existed back then. Even though we actually have production-ready frameworks now, that sort of thing can leave a bad taste in your mouth. Especially when you see the same mistakes made by people jumping onto the Meteor bandwagon, for example. But it's defintiely something to try and get over :)
- matthewrudy 12y ago
  Ember now feels like a complete framework, but fundamentally any Ember app will be tightly coupled to Ember the framework. In many ways this is the same as Rails Apps have traditionally been very much tied to Rails. Having worked on many Rails Apps that have grown beyond the scope of the framework, the apps I build today are as decoupled as possible from the framework. I hope that the Ember community can grow in that direction too, and at a distant look, it feels like Web Components will be that method of decoupling. Right now I tell everyone that I'd never render HTML (or JS) on the server, and I hope that JS frameworks will keep maturing with my clients' needs, so I don't have to renege on that approach.
onion2k 12y ago
Can we please drop the "cool kids" cliche? It's a tired generalization. Worse, 'cool kids' implies doing something because someone else is doing it rather than because it's the right thing to do in your organisation. It smacks of cargo cult behaviour - copying actions and hoping to get the same end result without understanding why.
- lbotos 12y ago
  I think it's actually the exact phrase we should be using. I work with helping beginner programmers learn to code and if they want to know "javascript" (they don't even know what that means) they are always asking for ember/angular/node and when I ask why they want to use these technologies or what project they are working on that would benefit from that style they blank. It's definitely cool kid syndrome.

by tericho 12y ago

matthewmacleod 12y ago

I think part of that is a reaction to how many people jumped on to the client-side JS framework bandwagon very early, because it was "the next big thing", but before the tools were ready for production. I've had to deal with more than my fair share of crappy, hacked-together Ember apps that were developed like this. There have been too many breaking changes to upgrade, performance is bad, an they're full of hacks to work around deficiencies that existed back then. Even though we actually have production-ready frameworks now, that sort of thing can leave a bad taste in your mouth. Especially when you see the same mistakes made by people jumping onto the Meteor bandwagon, for example. But it's defintiely something to try and get over :)

matthewrudy 12y ago
Ember now feels like a complete framework, but fundamentally any Ember app will be tightly coupled to Ember the framework. In many ways this is the same as Rails Apps have traditionally been very much tied to Rails. Having worked on many Rails Apps that have grown beyond the scope of the framework, the apps I build today are as decoupled as possible from the framework. I hope that the Ember community can grow in that direction too, and at a distant look, it feels like Web Components will be that method of decoupling. Right now I tell everyone that I'd never render HTML (or JS) on the server, and I hope that JS frameworks will keep maturing with my clients' needs, so I don't have to renege on that approach.

onion2k 12y ago

Can we please drop the "cool kids" cliche? It's a tired generalization. Worse, 'cool kids' implies doing something because someone else is doing it rather than because it's the right thing to do in your organisation. It smacks of cargo cult behaviour - copying actions and hoping to get the same end result without understanding why.

lbotos 12y ago
I think it's actually the exact phrase we should be using. I work with helping beginner programmers learn to code and if they want to know "javascript" (they don't even know what that means) they are always asking for ember/angular/node and when I ask why they want to use these technologies or what project they are working on that would benefit from that style they blank. It's definitely cool kid syndrome.