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Linguistics would offer a near unparalleled way to tell. Linguistic specialists are used by the police in the UK to locate where hostage takers (or ransom maker

Linguistics would offer a near unparalleled way to tell. Linguistic specialists are used by the police in the UK to locate where hostage takers (or ransom makers) come from. IIRC there's 3 categories they can tell on average; where you grew up, where you lived and where you've lived recently. Basically if you grew up in London, lived in Manchester and have lived in Scotland for a half-year or so, they'll know. When compared to police records of hardened criminals this can usually help them narrow it down to a handful of people, sometimes when a persons accents are so strong (IE you can locate a specific area of each city) it can basically get you the person you're dealing with. It then gives negotiators the upper hand, because they know who they're dealing with and their behaviours from previous crimes before they've even opened negotiations. If linguistic specialists can work this well for accents inside the UK, I'm sure they'll be able to tell if you're lying when you say you grew up in Somalia to Somali parents, but you're accents indicating you're from Kenya or Ethiopia. It might not be useful all the time, but it could certainly help add credence to someone's story and potentially help a refugee with legitimate claim through faster. I doubt you'd be able to narrow down regionality through linguistics like you can in the UK. British accents are usually so strong that they're like prime colours in language, I've got friends here in Canada who immigrated here when they were infants, but they've still got a British accent in there. When you're dealing with adults, the accent is as clear as day even when they've been in Canada for decades.

sethg 17y ago
If linguistic specialists can work this well for accents inside the UK, I'm sure they'll be able to tell if you're lying when you say you grew up in Somalia to Somali parents, but you're accents indicating you're from Kenya or Ethiopia. The boundaries between Somalia, Kenya, and Ethiopia were drawn by European diplomats in the nineteenth century for their convenience. Those boundaries cut across the territory occupied the ethnically-Somali people themselves, who (if Wikipedia can be trusted) are traditionally nomadic and who frequently marry outside their own clans. So if some linguist claimed that he could identify the origin of a Somali-speaker the way Henry Higgins could trace an English-speaker, I would be very very skeptical.
- mahmud 17y ago
  I could :-) The borders between Somalia and Kenya is one thing, with Ethiopia another. The Kenyan border has always been a no-go zone for most ethnic Somalis. That area has the highest concentration of Somali minorities, both ethnic and linguistic. The mainstream Somalis went there after recent famines and some where relocated there by the government in the 60s and 70s. Previously they have gone there back and forth in pastoral voyages, but always "returned", or more accurately, they found other places where the grass was, literally, greener. Somali Kenyans (Somali-Sujuu, not recent refugee) are Darood from the North and North West, and not other Somali tribes from the middle and the south of the country, closer to Kenya :-) The Sujuu concentrate in Garrise, Mandheere and Wajeer cities in Kenya. They have funny Somali accents, but they're considered proper Somalis, since they are mostly Ogaden tribe who are known for bravery (the recipients of the first air-strike outside of Europe. They also hold the dubious title of being at war with every colonizing force in Somalia, simultaneously; Ethiopian Emperor, Great Britain, Italy and France.) The Ethiopian border with Somali IS, however, arbitrarily drawn. One fifth of Ethiopia's population are ethnic Somalis. However, Djibouti is one country that has a Somali population of 60% and they're happy not to call themselves Somalis.
dkarl 17y ago
IIRC there's 3 categories they can tell on average; where you grew up, where you lived and where you've lived recently. Basically if you grew up in London, lived in Manchester and have lived in Scotland for a half-year or so, they'll know. If linguistic specialists can work this well.... Law enforcement have a bad track record of having great faith in techniques that don't actually work. One recent example in the news was the bogus forensic arson investigation techniques that were used to convict and execute Cameron Todd Willingham. Confessions are another example -- how many cases have been closed prematurely because police believed it was implausible for a person with no obvious mental abnormalities to confess to a heinous crime they didn't commit? That's why it's important to scientifically validate the techniques that are used. The fact that police have used a method and found it completely satisfactory doesn't say much about its validity.
- tokenadult 17y ago
  Law enforcement have a bad track record of having great faith in techniques that don't actually work. Yes, actually most police investigation techniques have never been subjected to proper validation studies.

sethg 17y ago

If linguistic specialists can work this well for accents inside the UK, I'm sure they'll be able to tell if you're lying when you say you grew up in Somalia to Somali parents, but you're accents indicating you're from Kenya or Ethiopia. The boundaries between Somalia, Kenya, and Ethiopia were drawn by European diplomats in the nineteenth century for their convenience. Those boundaries cut across the territory occupied the ethnically-Somali people themselves, who (if Wikipedia can be trusted) are traditionally nomadic and who frequently marry outside their own clans. So if some linguist claimed that he could identify the origin of a Somali-speaker the way Henry Higgins could trace an English-speaker, I would be very very skeptical.

mahmud 17y ago
I could :-) The borders between Somalia and Kenya is one thing, with Ethiopia another. The Kenyan border has always been a no-go zone for most ethnic Somalis. That area has the highest concentration of Somali minorities, both ethnic and linguistic. The mainstream Somalis went there after recent famines and some where relocated there by the government in the 60s and 70s. Previously they have gone there back and forth in pastoral voyages, but always "returned", or more accurately, they found other places where the grass was, literally, greener. Somali Kenyans (Somali-Sujuu, not recent refugee) are Darood from the North and North West, and not other Somali tribes from the middle and the south of the country, closer to Kenya :-) The Sujuu concentrate in Garrise, Mandheere and Wajeer cities in Kenya. They have funny Somali accents, but they're considered proper Somalis, since they are mostly Ogaden tribe who are known for bravery (the recipients of the first air-strike outside of Europe. They also hold the dubious title of being at war with every colonizing force in Somalia, simultaneously; Ethiopian Emperor, Great Britain, Italy and France.) The Ethiopian border with Somali IS, however, arbitrarily drawn. One fifth of Ethiopia's population are ethnic Somalis. However, Djibouti is one country that has a Somali population of 60% and they're happy not to call themselves Somalis.

dkarl 17y ago

IIRC there's 3 categories they can tell on average; where you grew up, where you lived and where you've lived recently. Basically if you grew up in London, lived in Manchester and have lived in Scotland for a half-year or so, they'll know. If linguistic specialists can work this well.... Law enforcement have a bad track record of having great faith in techniques that don't actually work. One recent example in the news was the bogus forensic arson investigation techniques that were used to convict and execute Cameron Todd Willingham. Confessions are another example -- how many cases have been closed prematurely because police believed it was implausible for a person with no obvious mental abnormalities to confess to a heinous crime they didn't commit? That's why it's important to scientifically validate the techniques that are used. The fact that police have used a method and found it completely satisfactory doesn't say much about its validity.

tokenadult 17y ago
Law enforcement have a bad track record of having great faith in techniques that don't actually work. Yes, actually most police investigation techniques have never been subjected to proper validation studies.