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What's so evil about Google?

by lucian1900 12y ago

skj 12y ago
It doesn't matter. (disclaimer: googler) I see it as a hubris against the idea that Google claimed to not be evil, and the fact that evil is such a poorly defined concept, and whether or not Google meets the bar depends entirely on the values of the perceiver. Many perceivers, for instance, miss the distinction between "Don't be evil." and "Don't do evil.". The former is a mindset, strategy, and intention, while the latter is impossible for a corporation with 50k employees. Then, the only logical conclusion for someone who hasn't grasped all of the above is that Google is becoming more and more evil every day.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >Many perceivers, for instance, miss the distinction between "Don't be evil." and "Don't do evil.". The former is a mindset, strategy, and intention, while the latter is impossible for a corporation with 50k employees. No, we perceive the disctinction just fine. Some of us just believe Google does "evil" with mindset, strategy, and intention...
  - lucian1900 12y ago
    I would suggest that those of you that believe that are deluded. What possible motivation could they have for being "evil", comic book style?
    - WorldWideWayne 12y ago
      You don't think they're a front company for the NSA? What possible motivation does anyone have for doing evil?
      - lucian1900 12y ago
        > You don't think they're a front company for the NSA? No, I don't. the NSA isn't magic or the Illuminati.
        WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        Don't be silly. The probability that the NSA works through Google doesn't hinge on magic or the Illuminati at all. It's quite common that intelligence agencies use front companies to do their work. Look it up.
        chc 12y ago
        You're suggesting that a scrappy startup in a field everybody else wrote off which eventually grew to be one of the biggest companies in Silicon Valley was actually just a front and not a real business the whole time? That strains credulity — really far.
        WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        Ever heard of Operation Mockingbird? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
        skj 12y ago
        Project mockingbird, therefore the NSA established Google as a front company for spying on the population?
        WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        So, the alphabet agencies have done it before but there's zero probability that they'll do it again right? Yeah, makes perfect sense.
    - coldtea 12y ago
      Comic-book style? Who said anything about that? Just greedy capitalist style, and "patriotic" pro-US-interests style.
      - DannyBee 12y ago
        Given that everyone at the top has more money than they know what to do with, what would "greed" have to do with it?
        GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        Mega-laffo if you think that the super-rich don't want to become ultra-rich.
    - MichaelGG 12y ago
      No one said anything about comic book style. Google is the one that framed things in terms of evil. Are you saying Google meant it in a tautological way? That is, unless they start killing children or something really evil, it doesn't count?
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  What's the mindset that ends up with Chrome going out of its way to swap OK/Cancel when you enable DNT? (I don't think DNT is a real solution, but I'd guess Google wants to be able to point to data showing users don't enable it.) What's the mindset behind the broken permissions on Android? Where any app that wants to change behavior when you get a call must request permission to your IMEI and calling/called number? Or why the broken, upfront, all or nothing model is still even used? What's the mindset behind G+'s incessant nagging, and forcing it as a requirement to even rate apps on Play? Or the same for YouTube, etc.? Not to mention the "real names" debacle. At what point are we allowed to say Google's mindset is not "don't be evil" as far as external observers are concerned? Or will everyone that brings this up always be labeled as unable to understand?
  - zetafunction 12y ago
    > What's the mindset that ends up with Chrome going out of its way to swap OK/Cancel when you enable DNT? Chrome dev here. The way the Chrome settings web UI is written does not lend itself to strong consistency, just eventual, as devs notice it and fix it. Your DNT example was fixed last week in https://codereview.chromium.org/665113003 https://codereview.chromium.org/665113003. Another example of inconsistent button ordering: the overlay for disconnecting a managed profile has its buttons reversed from the usual order, while the overlay for disconnecting an unmanaged profile does not.
    - MichaelGG 12y ago
      Damn. I guess this just goes to show how hard it is for an external observer to judge intent. I mean, you gotta admit that between the long, scary warning and flipping the buttons around compared to other privacy related settings, it certainly seems like a dark pattern. But I've been on the receiving end of this, so I understand how frustrating this must be. "No, really, it was late and one line got pasted in front of another and no one noticed." I guess that just leaves the fundamental incompatibility with Google's current business model and personal privacy.
      - munificent 12y ago
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  I do not know if Google is evil, however I do find it hard to trust an organisation that feels the need to have "Don't be evil" as a motto, for much the same reason as avoiding someone on the street who is loudly reminding themselves not to kill people.

What's so evil about Google?

skj 12y ago

It doesn't matter. (disclaimer: googler) I see it as a hubris against the idea that Google claimed to not be evil, and the fact that evil is such a poorly defined concept, and whether or not Google meets the bar depends entirely on the values of the perceiver. Many perceivers, for instance, miss the distinction between "Don't be evil." and "Don't do evil.". The former is a mindset, strategy, and intention, while the latter is impossible for a corporation with 50k employees. Then, the only logical conclusion for someone who hasn't grasped all of the above is that Google is becoming more and more evil every day.

coldtea 12y ago
>Many perceivers, for instance, miss the distinction between "Don't be evil." and "Don't do evil.". The former is a mindset, strategy, and intention, while the latter is impossible for a corporation with 50k employees. No, we perceive the disctinction just fine. Some of us just believe Google does "evil" with mindset, strategy, and intention...
- lucian1900 12y ago
  I would suggest that those of you that believe that are deluded. What possible motivation could they have for being "evil", comic book style?
  - WorldWideWayne 12y ago
    You don't think they're a front company for the NSA? What possible motivation does anyone have for doing evil?
    - lucian1900 12y ago
      > You don't think they're a front company for the NSA? No, I don't. the NSA isn't magic or the Illuminati.
      - WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        Don't be silly. The probability that the NSA works through Google doesn't hinge on magic or the Illuminati at all. It's quite common that intelligence agencies use front companies to do their work. Look it up.
        chc 12y ago
        You're suggesting that a scrappy startup in a field everybody else wrote off which eventually grew to be one of the biggest companies in Silicon Valley was actually just a front and not a real business the whole time? That strains credulity — really far.
        WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        Ever heard of Operation Mockingbird? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
        skj 12y ago
        Project mockingbird, therefore the NSA established Google as a front company for spying on the population?
        WorldWideWayne 12y ago
        So, the alphabet agencies have done it before but there's zero probability that they'll do it again right? Yeah, makes perfect sense.
  - coldtea 12y ago
    Comic-book style? Who said anything about that? Just greedy capitalist style, and "patriotic" pro-US-interests style.
    - DannyBee 12y ago
      Given that everyone at the top has more money than they know what to do with, what would "greed" have to do with it?
      - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
        Mega-laffo if you think that the super-rich don't want to become ultra-rich.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    No one said anything about comic book style. Google is the one that framed things in terms of evil. Are you saying Google meant it in a tautological way? That is, unless they start killing children or something really evil, it doesn't count?
MichaelGG 12y ago
What's the mindset that ends up with Chrome going out of its way to swap OK/Cancel when you enable DNT? (I don't think DNT is a real solution, but I'd guess Google wants to be able to point to data showing users don't enable it.) What's the mindset behind the broken permissions on Android? Where any app that wants to change behavior when you get a call must request permission to your IMEI and calling/called number? Or why the broken, upfront, all or nothing model is still even used? What's the mindset behind G+'s incessant nagging, and forcing it as a requirement to even rate apps on Play? Or the same for YouTube, etc.? Not to mention the "real names" debacle. At what point are we allowed to say Google's mindset is not "don't be evil" as far as external observers are concerned? Or will everyone that brings this up always be labeled as unable to understand?
- zetafunction 12y ago
  > What's the mindset that ends up with Chrome going out of its way to swap OK/Cancel when you enable DNT? Chrome dev here. The way the Chrome settings web UI is written does not lend itself to strong consistency, just eventual, as devs notice it and fix it. Your DNT example was fixed last week in https://codereview.chromium.org/665113003 https://codereview.chromium.org/665113003. Another example of inconsistent button ordering: the overlay for disconnecting a managed profile has its buttons reversed from the usual order, while the overlay for disconnecting an unmanaged profile does not.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    Damn. I guess this just goes to show how hard it is for an external observer to judge intent. I mean, you gotta admit that between the long, scary warning and flipping the buttons around compared to other privacy related settings, it certainly seems like a dark pattern. But I've been on the receiving end of this, so I understand how frustrating this must be. "No, really, it was late and one line got pasted in front of another and no one noticed." I guess that just leaves the fundamental incompatibility with Google's current business model and personal privacy.
    - munificent 12y ago
lotsofmangos 12y ago
I do not know if Google is evil, however I do find it hard to trust an organisation that feels the need to have "Don't be evil" as a motto, for much the same reason as avoiding someone on the street who is loudly reminding themselves not to kill people.