5 ms·

The article is mixed - some really interesting points, some off-the-mark points. But this is one I've thought a lot about: > Even Plato barely survived history

The article is mixed - some really interesting points, some off-the-mark points. But this is one I've thought a lot about: > Even Plato barely survived history’s guillotine—throughout medieval times, Plato was unknown in the West, living on only in Muslim countries and in footnotes to other Greek authors. Had the Muslims been worse stewards, or been conquered by marauding Christians who needed kindling or toilet paper, Socrates would have died in vain. I wonder how many other exceptional Antiquity works we don't have? How many other masterpieces were made and destroyed due to the Dark Ages/Burning of Baghdad mix? I've got this as one of the top 10 worst moments in human history, right up there with the Holocaust: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghdad_(1258)#Destruction_of_Baghdad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Baghdad_(1258)#Destru... In addition to the lost of life, cruelties, and destruction, we lost a lot of works that would've tremendously benefited humanity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Wisdom So I wonder what else we don't have copies of? I'm marveled when I go through modern versions of some of the ancient works at how good they were. Antiquity Greece and Rome, and the Islamic Golden Age produced some really incredible science, philosophy, engineering, and literature. Sometimes I muse, wondering what other knowledge did they produce that we have no more records of?

mechanical_fish 17y ago
I wonder how many other exceptional Antiquity works we don't have? Well, as my music history lecturer pointed out, we've lost just about one hundred percent of ancient Greek and Roman music. There's not enough left to fill half an hour. Given that the Greeks and Romans left behind a lot of fascinating writing about music, and that the music was apparently a central part of ancient Greek drama, this is a really big loss.
- electromagnetic 17y ago
  Well Greek and Roman cultures exemplified plays and indeed still have some of the most revered plays to date, likely second only to Shakespeare. We also know that there was music played to accompany them, and I have little doubt that they would have understood the use of music to make the play. Yet just like a silent film without a pianist, we'll never have a complete understanding of what was intended by the Greek and Roman play writes. Anyone watched Psycho without music? It's crap.
Mentat_Enki 17y ago
Aye, and don't forget the loss of the Library at Alexandria... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_at_Alexandria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_at_Alexandria
- akkartik 17y ago
  We don't even know when it was destroyed.
  - SapphireSun 17y ago
    I read it was partially destroyed with the coming and subsequent political machinations of Julius Caesar which resulted in an invasion of Alexandria by Roman soldiers. They started a fire at the docs that spread and burned something like thousands of scrolls. Part of the library (and the attached museum) remained intact and that is the part we do not know much about.
jwhite 17y ago
> The article is mixed I tend to agree. The title put me off as well. The attitude that existence depends on the event being recorded is too relativist for my personal preference. The central point, that civilizations tend to underrate their ancient predecessors because the historical record becomes degraded or misinterpreted is easy to agree with. However, the claim that our distant descendants won't have a clue what we really achieved is one-eyed. Five hundred years ago, Europeans had lost much knowledge of the history of European civilizations, and their knowledge of civilizations on other continents varied from total ignorance upwards. Five hundred years of progress in historical research and research methods, together with scientific progress in archaeology, geology, paleontology, climate science, medical science, etc., has allowed us to uncover much that we didn't know about the past, despite the fact that there is still much more that is lost forever. If our civilization suffers a catastrophic event, a future civilization may still be capable of uncovering many facts about us. Given the amount of knowledge that archaeologists can deduce from fragments of pottery, fragments of human remains, fragments of ancient settlements, etc., and given that the products of nuclear technology can have very long half-lives, I think the author of the article draws a long bow in claiming that thousands of years hence there will be scant evidence that we had A-bombs in the 1940's.

mechanical_fish 17y ago

I wonder how many other exceptional Antiquity works we don't have? Well, as my music history lecturer pointed out, we've lost just about one hundred percent of ancient Greek and Roman music. There's not enough left to fill half an hour. Given that the Greeks and Romans left behind a lot of fascinating writing about music, and that the music was apparently a central part of ancient Greek drama, this is a really big loss.

electromagnetic 17y ago
Well Greek and Roman cultures exemplified plays and indeed still have some of the most revered plays to date, likely second only to Shakespeare. We also know that there was music played to accompany them, and I have little doubt that they would have understood the use of music to make the play. Yet just like a silent film without a pianist, we'll never have a complete understanding of what was intended by the Greek and Roman play writes. Anyone watched Psycho without music? It's crap.

Mentat_Enki 17y ago

Aye, and don't forget the loss of the Library at Alexandria... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_at_Alexandria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_at_Alexandria

akkartik 17y ago
We don't even know when it was destroyed.
- SapphireSun 17y ago
  I read it was partially destroyed with the coming and subsequent political machinations of Julius Caesar which resulted in an invasion of Alexandria by Roman soldiers. They started a fire at the docs that spread and burned something like thousands of scrolls. Part of the library (and the attached museum) remained intact and that is the part we do not know much about.

jwhite 17y ago

> The article is mixed I tend to agree. The title put me off as well. The attitude that existence depends on the event being recorded is too relativist for my personal preference. The central point, that civilizations tend to underrate their ancient predecessors because the historical record becomes degraded or misinterpreted is easy to agree with. However, the claim that our distant descendants won't have a clue what we really achieved is one-eyed. Five hundred years ago, Europeans had lost much knowledge of the history of European civilizations, and their knowledge of civilizations on other continents varied from total ignorance upwards. Five hundred years of progress in historical research and research methods, together with scientific progress in archaeology, geology, paleontology, climate science, medical science, etc., has allowed us to uncover much that we didn't know about the past, despite the fact that there is still much more that is lost forever. If our civilization suffers a catastrophic event, a future civilization may still be capable of uncovering many facts about us. Given the amount of knowledge that archaeologists can deduce from fragments of pottery, fragments of human remains, fragments of ancient settlements, etc., and given that the products of nuclear technology can have very long half-lives, I think the author of the article draws a long bow in claiming that thousands of years hence there will be scant evidence that we had A-bombs in the 1940's.