4 ms·

I'm going to answer a question implied by your question first. There is no single effective record of citizenship in the United States, nor is there any kind o

by djur 12y ago

I'm going to answer a question implied by your question first. There is no single effective record of citizenship in the United States, nor is there any kind of national ID program. Social Security numbers are frequently used as proof of identity but it is possible not to have one. They are not proof of citizenship. To give you an idea of what this looks like, to get an official photo ID from the State of Oregon you need to provide proof of state residency (generally this takes the form of a utility bill, bank correspondence, etc. with your name and an in-state address on it), identity (a social security card, another state ID, a passport), and legal presence in the US -- which either means legal residency or citizenship. In the case of naturalized citizens, this is simple: you're issued paperwork when you gain citizenship. Proof of natural citizenship is more complicated[1], because there's a lot of ways to be born a US citizen, some of which don't automatically result in documents being filed. People who drive will get a state driver's license, which generally has the same requirements in addition to a driving test and the like. State ID cards are frequently just driver's licenses with an indication added that they aren't actually a license to drive! That all leads to the actual answer to your question: every state handles voting differently. Some require you to register in advance, others don't; some require photo ID, others don't. My state and a few others conduct voting by mail. Eligibility standards are also allowed to vary by state, with a few constitutional limitations introduced by amendment. That's a whole topic in itself, but the brief summary is that there is no constitutionally defined positive right to vote in the US, only a set of criteria that states are not allowed to use to exclude voters (age if older than 18, sex, race). Any major reform of this system would require a constitutional amendment, which is a very high bar to jump in the US. [1]: http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/pages/driverid/idproof.aspx#legal_presence http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/pages/driverid/idproof.aspx#l...

gambiting 12y ago
Thank you very much for the throughout explanation. I always assumed there was an easy way to determine if someone is a citizen or not, but clearly that's not the case. It does make the whole voting issue a lot more complicated, had no idea it was as such.
- JoeAltmaier 12y ago
  The complexity is reduced if we only require residency to vote. We can do it any way we want after all; and that's a defensible rule. After all, we once had a revolution over "no taxation without representation" and voting rules are all about denying representation.
PeterWhittaker 12y ago
Excellent reply. I confess to finding the US system mind boggling. The whole concept of "voter registration" and its being controversial and source of discrimination just boggles my mind - as does how ridings are determined. We have pretty much a single voter's list: We have a federal organization responsible for maintaining the federal list, and it shares information with its provincial counterparts, and vice versa, and they each cross-check their information for integrity purposes. When you file your income tax, which is done exclusively federally, except for in Quebec, you can check a box to share your name and address info with Elections Canada for purposes of maintaining the federal list. The provincial agencies use all available provincial and municipal sources of information to cross-check their lists with data obtained from the federal agency. Door-to-door enrollment is pretty much never done, except when there are major changes in an area that have yet to be reflected in the various sources of information. That same independent federal agency sets federal riding boundaries based on population; it was created about 50 years ago to prevent jerrymandering and works pretty darned well: The government does not get any say in setting riding boundaries (we have a pretty transparent auditing system, which helps). In fact, in Southern Ontario, the provincial ridings are aligned with the federal boundaries, so the independent federal agency is scrutinized by the government of the most populous province, as well as by the federal auditing arm. Several weeks before an election, each registered voter gets a card in the mail with their polling place and, in the case of municipal elections, at least in Ontario, their ballot colour (we have four independent school systems, don't ask, sigh, and the ballot ensures you get the correct school board candidates). You arrive at a poll with your card (optional, really, if you know what you are doing, they have all the same info) and a piece of photo ID and you are checked against the published list. If you aren't on it, you can register at the time, but I don't know the details, never had to do it. This morning as my name was being crossed off the list by the volunteer at my table, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the names of my wife (out of the city today, voted early) and my daughter (in school downtown all day, voted early) were crossed off in the actual printout provided to the polling place, not crossed off by hand. Oh, and in Ontario, at least, we pretty much use the same ballot and tabulation system for all elections. No hanging chad, no arms to pull, no electronic screens. A piece of paper, a marker, and a "privacy screen": you mark your ballot, slide it into the screen, take it to the returning officer who inserts the open end from which the ballot protrudes into a scanner, which pulls in the ballot, scans it, tabulates it, and slides the ballot into a locked box, available for hand recounting afterwards. Nice and simple and effective and completely non-controversial. The Bush-Gore election honest-to-god boggled our minds.

by djur 12y ago

gambiting 12y ago

Thank you very much for the throughout explanation. I always assumed there was an easy way to determine if someone is a citizen or not, but clearly that's not the case. It does make the whole voting issue a lot more complicated, had no idea it was as such.

JoeAltmaier 12y ago
The complexity is reduced if we only require residency to vote. We can do it any way we want after all; and that's a defensible rule. After all, we once had a revolution over "no taxation without representation" and voting rules are all about denying representation.

PeterWhittaker 12y ago

Excellent reply. I confess to finding the US system mind boggling. The whole concept of "voter registration" and its being controversial and source of discrimination just boggles my mind - as does how ridings are determined. We have pretty much a single voter's list: We have a federal organization responsible for maintaining the federal list, and it shares information with its provincial counterparts, and vice versa, and they each cross-check their information for integrity purposes. When you file your income tax, which is done exclusively federally, except for in Quebec, you can check a box to share your name and address info with Elections Canada for purposes of maintaining the federal list. The provincial agencies use all available provincial and municipal sources of information to cross-check their lists with data obtained from the federal agency. Door-to-door enrollment is pretty much never done, except when there are major changes in an area that have yet to be reflected in the various sources of information. That same independent federal agency sets federal riding boundaries based on population; it was created about 50 years ago to prevent jerrymandering and works pretty darned well: The government does not get any say in setting riding boundaries (we have a pretty transparent auditing system, which helps). In fact, in Southern Ontario, the provincial ridings are aligned with the federal boundaries, so the independent federal agency is scrutinized by the government of the most populous province, as well as by the federal auditing arm. Several weeks before an election, each registered voter gets a card in the mail with their polling place and, in the case of municipal elections, at least in Ontario, their ballot colour (we have four independent school systems, don't ask, sigh, and the ballot ensures you get the correct school board candidates). You arrive at a poll with your card (optional, really, if you know what you are doing, they have all the same info) and a piece of photo ID and you are checked against the published list. If you aren't on it, you can register at the time, but I don't know the details, never had to do it. This morning as my name was being crossed off the list by the volunteer at my table, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the names of my wife (out of the city today, voted early) and my daughter (in school downtown all day, voted early) were crossed off in the actual printout provided to the polling place, not crossed off by hand. Oh, and in Ontario, at least, we pretty much use the same ballot and tabulation system for all elections. No hanging chad, no arms to pull, no electronic screens. A piece of paper, a marker, and a "privacy screen": you mark your ballot, slide it into the screen, take it to the returning officer who inserts the open end from which the ballot protrudes into a scanner, which pulls in the ballot, scans it, tabulates it, and slides the ballot into a locked box, available for hand recounting afterwards. Nice and simple and effective and completely non-controversial. The Bush-Gore election honest-to-god boggled our minds.