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It's very simple: Voting is a privilege reserved for US Citizens. Naturalized or Native. It is a travesty not to have a mechanism ensuring that only citizens

It's very simple: Voting is a privilege reserved for US Citizens. Naturalized or Native. It is a travesty not to have a mechanism ensuring that only citizens vote. This has nothing whatsoever with economic circumstance or political party. The vast majority of US citizens can more than afford whatever might be required to confirm their citizenship. Everyone is walking around with cellphones, iPhones, watching satellite and cable TV, using DSL at home, etc. Those who truly don't have the means ought to get help from the rest of us. If you have a cellphone, cable TV and DSL at home you can damn well spend $150 or so every ten years to obtain voting documentation. We can even make that expense tax deductible. You want to vote? Prove that you are entitled to doing so. Present a valid US passport. Simple as that. Don't have the money to pay for a US passport? There's an app for that: http://www.uscis.gov/feewaiver http://www.uscis.gov/feewaiver So, there, those without the means or those experiencing hardship can get a US passport for free. I'm confused. What's the problem?

inimini 12y ago
There's no problem, only people who feel entitled to have problems. Voting doesn't change a thing anyway. I thought they'd start to understand that with Obama, but apparently he failed to betray enough promises for the sheeple to wake up.
teraflop 12y ago
Of course it's not that simple. First of all, the waiver form you linked to is applicable to USCIS, which is part of the Department of Homeland Security. Passports are issued by the State Department. As far as I can determine, they waive the application fee for US government employees who travel only on official business, but there's no waiver for economic hardship. Second, you can't just wave your hands and say "those who truly don't have the means ought to get help from the rest of us" as if saying it makes it so. If you suggest a policy change that will disenfranchise the poor unless some other public assistance program is established, you are de facto suggesting disenfranchisement. Creating an explicit financial disincentive to vote is not quite as bad as making it impossible to vote at all, but it's close.
lsiebert 12y ago
A passport is not necessarily enough. A passport doesn't prove that you are a resident of the state or that you have lived in your current location for a period of time, which may be a requirement. You probably don't realize this, but living in the same place every month, or even every night, is not necessarily something everyone can say, much less prove. Know any legally blind people? How easy is it for them to find a birth certificate to get a passport? Also many states have attempted to change voting requirements close to elections. That's one of the many reasons the Justice Department has gotten involved. You can also look at the rules for tribal IDs for native americans. Plus even if every requirement is free, that doesn't necessarily mean that the person is savvy enough and committed to know how to navigate the system. Free doesn't mean easy, it doesn't mean that it doesn't take time. Remember, it's a lot easier to take time off to get passport photos taken, or go down to the DMV, or request a fee waiver if you aren't working two jobs and taking care of kids on your own. Go ask five friends if they know about the fee waiver, and then ask yourself, is a poor person more or less likely to have the education and cultural literacy that your friends have? Or you can just trust people when they tell you there is a problem.
- robomartin 12y ago
  Well, we can certainly find a million ways to complicate something that is very simple. I just took my 15 year old to the DMV to get him a permit to start driving lessons. We had to bring his original birth certificate and pay $30. It really isn't that complicated. You seem to think everyone is a poor idiot who can barely read and tie their shoelaces. I happen to think people are perfectly capable of these simple tasks. If they can get cellphones, use the internet, mavigate the DMV, drive a car and generally navigate modern life they can certainly meet well publicised voting requirements. If it is a matter of money, well, tack on $5 to every ID processing fee to help thise who cannot. Non-citizens should not be able to vote.
- jack-r-abbit 12y ago
  > Know any legally blind people? How easy is it for them to find a birth certificate to get a passport? I'm legitimately curious about this because it strikes me as an odd pairing. For a legally blind person, is "finding a birth certificate" or "getting a passport" significantly more difficult than finding/getting anything else in life?

inimini 12y ago

There's no problem, only people who feel entitled to have problems. Voting doesn't change a thing anyway. I thought they'd start to understand that with Obama, but apparently he failed to betray enough promises for the sheeple to wake up.

teraflop 12y ago

Of course it's not that simple. First of all, the waiver form you linked to is applicable to USCIS, which is part of the Department of Homeland Security. Passports are issued by the State Department. As far as I can determine, they waive the application fee for US government employees who travel only on official business, but there's no waiver for economic hardship. Second, you can't just wave your hands and say "those who truly don't have the means ought to get help from the rest of us" as if saying it makes it so. If you suggest a policy change that will disenfranchise the poor unless some other public assistance program is established, you are de facto suggesting disenfranchisement. Creating an explicit financial disincentive to vote is not quite as bad as making it impossible to vote at all, but it's close.

lsiebert 12y ago

A passport is not necessarily enough. A passport doesn't prove that you are a resident of the state or that you have lived in your current location for a period of time, which may be a requirement. You probably don't realize this, but living in the same place every month, or even every night, is not necessarily something everyone can say, much less prove. Know any legally blind people? How easy is it for them to find a birth certificate to get a passport? Also many states have attempted to change voting requirements close to elections. That's one of the many reasons the Justice Department has gotten involved. You can also look at the rules for tribal IDs for native americans. Plus even if every requirement is free, that doesn't necessarily mean that the person is savvy enough and committed to know how to navigate the system. Free doesn't mean easy, it doesn't mean that it doesn't take time. Remember, it's a lot easier to take time off to get passport photos taken, or go down to the DMV, or request a fee waiver if you aren't working two jobs and taking care of kids on your own. Go ask five friends if they know about the fee waiver, and then ask yourself, is a poor person more or less likely to have the education and cultural literacy that your friends have? Or you can just trust people when they tell you there is a problem.

robomartin 12y ago
Well, we can certainly find a million ways to complicate something that is very simple. I just took my 15 year old to the DMV to get him a permit to start driving lessons. We had to bring his original birth certificate and pay $30. It really isn't that complicated. You seem to think everyone is a poor idiot who can barely read and tie their shoelaces. I happen to think people are perfectly capable of these simple tasks. If they can get cellphones, use the internet, mavigate the DMV, drive a car and generally navigate modern life they can certainly meet well publicised voting requirements. If it is a matter of money, well, tack on $5 to every ID processing fee to help thise who cannot. Non-citizens should not be able to vote.
jack-r-abbit 12y ago
> Know any legally blind people? How easy is it for them to find a birth certificate to get a passport? I'm legitimately curious about this because it strikes me as an odd pairing. For a legally blind person, is "finding a birth certificate" or "getting a passport" significantly more difficult than finding/getting anything else in life?