5 ms·

I've just moved to the US, and I was curious as to what the process was. I'm not eligible to vote. I'm in Idaho where photo ID is required at the polling plac

by danpat 12y ago

I've just moved to the US, and I was curious as to what the process was. I'm not eligible to vote. I'm in Idaho where photo ID is required at the polling place. As far as I can see, all I would need to do would be show up on polling day, show my Idaho drivers license, fill out the registration form, and vote. The only proof of US citizenship required is that I would tick a box that says that I'm a US citizen. I can very easily see that being fraudulently exploited, or just plain misunderstood by new immigrants. I grew up in Australia, where voting is mandatory and has been for nearly a century. The system seems solid, and there is very rarely talk of vote fraud. The history of voting in the US is so full of change and diversity that I'm hardly surprised there are opportunities for exploits like this.

ecdavis 12y ago
> I can very easily see that being fraudulently exploited, or just plain misunderstood by new immigrants. Particularly when you're getting letters in the mail urging you to vote and telling you how. I've been getting a lot of those recently.
- inimini 12y ago
  Same thing. Voting, jury-duty, etc. The road to the centralization of government data is long (especially since it goes against the interests of fraudsters).
tsotha 12y ago
The theory is if you use your ID even though you're allowed to cast a vote your vote could be invalidated later. Technically you could be jailed as well. The reason conservatives want voter ID is to prevent voting under other peoples' identity. Without ID there's no way you can even know that's happening. Which, we suspect, is why the Democrats are fighting so hard against it. It's less of an issue in Australia because you have far fewer illegal immigrants and the system is set up such that the people who do immigrate to Australia tend to be more highly educated. In the US prior to 2008 we had something on the order of a million illegal immigrants per year stretching back almost twenty years.
- iak8god 12y ago
  > The reason conservatives want voter ID is to prevent voting under other peoples' identity. Without ID there's no way you can even know that's happening. Actually, having mandatory voting would be one way to know that's happening. Is there any evidence this is a widespread problem? You might try taking Democrats at their word that the reason they oppose voter ID laws is that they disproportionately affect the poor and minorities who may not have a driver's license, for instance, and for whom obtaining an ID might be a hassle and expense.
  - tsotha 12y ago
    >Is there any evidence this is a widespread problem? Of course not. Because the system is set up such that such evidence can't be gathered. Periodically someone will get stupid and talk out of school. Then what we hear is "Well, there's no evidence this is a widespread problem." We have no idea how widespread the problem is, and Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to prevent us from finding out. >You might try taking Democrats at their word that the reason they oppose voter ID laws is that they disproportionately affect the poor and minorities who may not have a driver's license, for instance, and for whom obtaining an ID might be a hassle and expense. I don't buy it. If Democrats really thought this was the problem they'd put their efforts into making sure poor and minority voters have ID instead of making sure just anyone can vote.
    - iak8god 12y ago
      Ah yes, as with any good conspiracy theory the lack of evidence is itself evidence. If Republicans are so concerned about the integrity of our democratic system, their efforts would be much better spent fighting the outrageous gerrymandering[1] that so often benefits them. Or why don't they put THEIR efforts into making sure poor and minority voters have IDs? [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/05/15/americas-most-gerrymandered-congressional-districts/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/05/15/a...
      - tsotha 12y ago
maxerickson 12y ago
I've had to do proof of citizenship to obtain my last two drivers licenses (in two different states, in 2013 and 2014; a legal immigrant would have to provide documentation of their status to obtain those licenses). That's in addition to proof of residence. I'm not sure they are tracking that documentation anywhere, but it would at least provide the opportunity to reject your ballot. For the most part, it would be an easy bit of information to quietly encode in the DL number (but again, don't know if such things are done).

by danpat 12y ago

ecdavis 12y ago

> I can very easily see that being fraudulently exploited, or just plain misunderstood by new immigrants. Particularly when you're getting letters in the mail urging you to vote and telling you how. I've been getting a lot of those recently.

inimini 12y ago
Same thing. Voting, jury-duty, etc. The road to the centralization of government data is long (especially since it goes against the interests of fraudsters).

tsotha 12y ago

The theory is if you use your ID even though you're allowed to cast a vote your vote could be invalidated later. Technically you could be jailed as well. The reason conservatives want voter ID is to prevent voting under other peoples' identity. Without ID there's no way you can even know that's happening. Which, we suspect, is why the Democrats are fighting so hard against it. It's less of an issue in Australia because you have far fewer illegal immigrants and the system is set up such that the people who do immigrate to Australia tend to be more highly educated. In the US prior to 2008 we had something on the order of a million illegal immigrants per year stretching back almost twenty years.

iak8god 12y ago
> The reason conservatives want voter ID is to prevent voting under other peoples' identity. Without ID there's no way you can even know that's happening. Actually, having mandatory voting would be one way to know that's happening. Is there any evidence this is a widespread problem? You might try taking Democrats at their word that the reason they oppose voter ID laws is that they disproportionately affect the poor and minorities who may not have a driver's license, for instance, and for whom obtaining an ID might be a hassle and expense.
- tsotha 12y ago
  >Is there any evidence this is a widespread problem? Of course not. Because the system is set up such that such evidence can't be gathered. Periodically someone will get stupid and talk out of school. Then what we hear is "Well, there's no evidence this is a widespread problem." We have no idea how widespread the problem is, and Democrats are fighting tooth and nail to prevent us from finding out. >You might try taking Democrats at their word that the reason they oppose voter ID laws is that they disproportionately affect the poor and minorities who may not have a driver's license, for instance, and for whom obtaining an ID might be a hassle and expense. I don't buy it. If Democrats really thought this was the problem they'd put their efforts into making sure poor and minority voters have ID instead of making sure just anyone can vote.
  - iak8god 12y ago
    Ah yes, as with any good conspiracy theory the lack of evidence is itself evidence. If Republicans are so concerned about the integrity of our democratic system, their efforts would be much better spent fighting the outrageous gerrymandering[1] that so often benefits them. Or why don't they put THEIR efforts into making sure poor and minority voters have IDs? [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/05/15/americas-most-gerrymandered-congressional-districts/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/05/15/a...
    - tsotha 12y ago

maxerickson 12y ago

I've had to do proof of citizenship to obtain my last two drivers licenses (in two different states, in 2013 and 2014; a legal immigrant would have to provide documentation of their status to obtain those licenses). That's in addition to proof of residence. I'm not sure they are tracking that documentation anywhere, but it would at least provide the opportunity to reject your ballot. For the most part, it would be an easy bit of information to quietly encode in the DL number (but again, don't know if such things are done).