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But to be fair, you could call anyone who joined the party a Nazi. I would imagine this meant that any career minded scientist who wanted government funding bec

But to be fair, you could call anyone who joined the party a Nazi. I would imagine this meant that any career minded scientist who wanted government funding become a Nazi. That hardly meant they did anything unethical during the war.

mamcx 12y ago
They joined the Nazi party. Thats unethical. BTW, anyone that build weapons or be part of experiments to break and destroy too, nazi or not.
- mineshaftgap 12y ago
  So only the enemy get to have weapons? Sounds like a self solving problem.
- voidlogic 12y ago
  Give me a break, many/most normal people didn't know about the "final solution". Being a nationalist isn't inherently unethical, committing genocide is. Many Germans fought hard in WWII, not for Hitler or his ideals, but because they didn't want Germany to end up like after WWI again. >>BTW, anyone that build weapons or be part of experiments to break and destroy too, nazi or not. Are you saying anyone develops weapons is unethical? I can see how you might hold that as a personal POV, but don't pretend there is consensus around that.
  - rdtsc 12y ago
    > Give me a break, many/most normal people didn't know about the "final solution". Hard to say because many certainly were given the opportunity to pretend like they didn't even if they did. Surely afterwards they probably wouldn't be raising their hands proclaiming they knew but kept quiet. Hundreds of thousands and millions of neighbours, friends, acquaintances disappearing and everyone actually thought they are being sent to ... well where ? the beach ? What did they think happened to this people. > Being a nationalist isn't inherently unethical, committing genocide is Joining to fight a war of aggression is and willingly participating in it is. Besides the most horrific and well calculated, scaled and optimized genocide, "regular" Joes Barbers committed countless tortures, rapes and execution in Easter Europe. My Russian teacher was telling us a personal story how as a child she watch through a fence how German soldiers, raped and then dismembered her childhood friend.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      Germans knew about the persecution and murder of Jews. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard > The mass of ordinary Germans did know about the evolving terror of Hitler's Holocaust, according to a new research study. They knew concentration camps were full of Jewish people who were stigmatised as sub-human and race-defilers. They knew that these, like other groups and minorities, were being killed out of hand. > They knew that Adolf Hitler had repeatedly forecast the extermination of every Jew on German soil. They knew these details because they had read about them. They knew because the camps and the measures which led up to them had been prominently and proudly reported step by step in thousands of officially-inspired German media articles and posters according to the study, which is due to be published simultaneously in Britain and the US early next month and which was described as ground-breaking by Oxford University Press yesterday and already hailed by other historians.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
    - voidlogic 12y ago
      >Joining to fight a war of aggression is and willingly participating in it is. Think of all the modern conflicts the US is in- If people actually voted on such things, they would happen less often. Nazi Germany quickly went from a "fighting mob" democracy to a "not really a democracy at all", proposing WWII was the choice of the average German citizen is nonsense. Even if your country is fighting a war you didn't support- you probably still want it to win... >My Russian teacher was telling us a personal story how as a child she watch through a fence how German soldiers, raped and then dismembered her childhood friend. And the Russians were just as bad later in the war... Are you claiming the Germans were especially brutal? This behavior has been the norm for solders for most of history- (Not saying its right, just saying it wasn't abnormal or unique).
      - rdtsc 12y ago
        > And the Russians were just as bad later in the war.. I never said Russians were better.
  - mamcx 12y ago
    Despite the fact some people actually chose to not bet part of it, despite it was harder (ie: more ethic), this is about scientist. Not the average joe. And THIS answer was in response to the scientist NASA and other agencies use, sorry for not make it clear. "Once "bleached" of their Nazism, the scientists were granted security clearances by the U.S. government to work in the United States." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip. This trigger the answer: "That hardly meant they did anything unethical during the war" Which kind of spy is more useful? The one that work with lovely and peaceful investigations? Or the one in positions of power, knowledge and most likely, militar-related? So them were most-likelly victims? According to this article: "They believed the ex-Nazis’ intelligence value against the Russians outweighed what one official called “moral lapses” in their service to the Third Reich" So?
- gohrt 12y ago
  That's like saying that joining the * party in USA is unethical because of the despicable things our military and contractors do. It's unhelpful.
- aggronn 12y ago
  This sounds like a rather uninformed view on how Nazi Germany operated. > DAF membership was theoretically voluntary, but any workers in any area of German commerce or industry would have found it hard to get a job without being a member http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front You could not work unless you joined the Nazi party.

mamcx 12y ago

They joined the Nazi party. Thats unethical. BTW, anyone that build weapons or be part of experiments to break and destroy too, nazi or not.

mineshaftgap 12y ago
So only the enemy get to have weapons? Sounds like a self solving problem.
voidlogic 12y ago
Give me a break, many/most normal people didn't know about the "final solution". Being a nationalist isn't inherently unethical, committing genocide is. Many Germans fought hard in WWII, not for Hitler or his ideals, but because they didn't want Germany to end up like after WWI again. >>BTW, anyone that build weapons or be part of experiments to break and destroy too, nazi or not. Are you saying anyone develops weapons is unethical? I can see how you might hold that as a personal POV, but don't pretend there is consensus around that.
- rdtsc 12y ago
  > Give me a break, many/most normal people didn't know about the "final solution". Hard to say because many certainly were given the opportunity to pretend like they didn't even if they did. Surely afterwards they probably wouldn't be raising their hands proclaiming they knew but kept quiet. Hundreds of thousands and millions of neighbours, friends, acquaintances disappearing and everyone actually thought they are being sent to ... well where ? the beach ? What did they think happened to this people. > Being a nationalist isn't inherently unethical, committing genocide is Joining to fight a war of aggression is and willingly participating in it is. Besides the most horrific and well calculated, scaled and optimized genocide, "regular" Joes Barbers committed countless tortures, rapes and execution in Easter Europe. My Russian teacher was telling us a personal story how as a child she watch through a fence how German soldiers, raped and then dismembered her childhood friend.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Germans knew about the persecution and murder of Jews. http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard > The mass of ordinary Germans did know about the evolving terror of Hitler's Holocaust, according to a new research study. They knew concentration camps were full of Jewish people who were stigmatised as sub-human and race-defilers. They knew that these, like other groups and minorities, were being killed out of hand. > They knew that Adolf Hitler had repeatedly forecast the extermination of every Jew on German soil. They knew these details because they had read about them. They knew because the camps and the measures which led up to them had been prominently and proudly reported step by step in thousands of officially-inspired German media articles and posters according to the study, which is due to be published simultaneously in Britain and the US early next month and which was described as ground-breaking by Oxford University Press yesterday and already hailed by other historians.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - voidlogic 12y ago
    >Joining to fight a war of aggression is and willingly participating in it is. Think of all the modern conflicts the US is in- If people actually voted on such things, they would happen less often. Nazi Germany quickly went from a "fighting mob" democracy to a "not really a democracy at all", proposing WWII was the choice of the average German citizen is nonsense. Even if your country is fighting a war you didn't support- you probably still want it to win... >My Russian teacher was telling us a personal story how as a child she watch through a fence how German soldiers, raped and then dismembered her childhood friend. And the Russians were just as bad later in the war... Are you claiming the Germans were especially brutal? This behavior has been the norm for solders for most of history- (Not saying its right, just saying it wasn't abnormal or unique).
    - rdtsc 12y ago
      > And the Russians were just as bad later in the war.. I never said Russians were better.
- mamcx 12y ago
  Despite the fact some people actually chose to not bet part of it, despite it was harder (ie: more ethic), this is about scientist. Not the average joe. And THIS answer was in response to the scientist NASA and other agencies use, sorry for not make it clear. "Once "bleached" of their Nazism, the scientists were granted security clearances by the U.S. government to work in the United States." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip. This trigger the answer: "That hardly meant they did anything unethical during the war" Which kind of spy is more useful? The one that work with lovely and peaceful investigations? Or the one in positions of power, knowledge and most likely, militar-related? So them were most-likelly victims? According to this article: "They believed the ex-Nazis’ intelligence value against the Russians outweighed what one official called “moral lapses” in their service to the Third Reich" So?
gohrt 12y ago
That's like saying that joining the * party in USA is unethical because of the despicable things our military and contractors do. It's unhelpful.
aggronn 12y ago
This sounds like a rather uninformed view on how Nazi Germany operated. > DAF membership was theoretically voluntary, but any workers in any area of German commerce or industry would have found it hard to get a job without being a member http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front You could not work unless you joined the Nazi party.