5 ms·
This reminds me of all the clever kids in school during Black History Month who would ask, "And when is White History Month?" The canned answer is, "The other
by mrshoe 17y ago
This reminds me of all the clever kids in school during Black History Month who would ask, "And when is White History Month?"
The canned answer is, "The other 11 months of the year are White History Months."
This answer has become trite at this point, but the argument at its core remains valid. Unfortunately, there are serious biases in our society. Correcting those biases is a worthy goal, and one we should pursue. In the mean time, we can use Black History Month and Ruby Workshops for Women to compensate for the biases and at least try to treat the symptoms.
- tptacek 17y agoYou don't even have to get into a discussion about whether meaningful biases persist. It's hard to go to a dev workshop if you're extremely rusty because you've been taking care of kids for 2 years, or because you've been forced by circumstances to work part-time.
- yummyfajitas 17y agoIt's also hard to go to a dev workshop if you are rusty because you've spend 2 years studying Judo or 2 years biking around India. Or, for that matter, if you are a man who's been forced by circumstances to work part time. Spending 2 years engaging in non-development activities (by choice) is not limited to women.
- tptacek 17y agoRaising a child: a non-development activity undertaken by choice. Biking around India: a non-development activity undertaken by choice. Therefore: We should all support paid family biking-around-India leave. The logic is unimpeachable!
- yummyfajitas 17y agoYou haven't actually offered an argument for supporting any kind of paid leave. But yes, I do believe that job benefits should be decoupled from having children. In any case, your mention of circumstances that could apply to people of any gender is a red herring. It's a workshop for women, not a workshop for people returning to the dev workforce after a 2 year hiatus.
- tptacek 17y agoIf you re-read the thread, I'm not offering a standalone justification for why a women's RoR workshop makes sense. Why bother? It's going to happen whether or not yummyfajitas likes the idea. I'm offering a reason why a men-only RoR workshop would be offensive when a women-only RoR workshop isn't. A RoR workshop for people returning from long trips abroad also wouldn't be offensive, although the equivalence you imply between the two ideas is weak.
- yummyfajitas 17y agoI guess I'm just not following your logic at all. Men-only RoR workshops are offensive but women-only ones are not because people of both genders sometimes leave the workforce for a year or three?
- tptacek 17y agoMen-only RoR workshops are offensive because there's no reason to have a men-only RoR workshop. Former-long-term-traveler-only RoR workshops are not offensive, though they are a bit silly. Women-only RoR workshops are not offensive, and I don't think they're silly either.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- tjogin 17y agoHis example of biking around India was stupid, but his logic wasn't. Raising a child is not something that only women do. His counter-example should have been that: a man raising a child.
- tptacek 17y agoRoR workshops for men who've taken time away from their careers to raise children. Also not a bad idea.
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]