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Your comment pissed me off a bit. > The more important question is, was there anything that prevented Sun or anyone else from implementing those in the other O

Your comment pissed me off a bit. > The more important question is, was there anything that prevented Sun or anyone else from implementing those in the other OSes? Yes, they made calls to native microsoft frameworks etc. > I do remember the MS JVM was significantly faster than Sun's. Lets dig out the binaries and do a perf test. > So the solution was to slow it down or for Sun to make it's own faster? This comment makes no sense. No idea what you mean by it. > It's in Microsoft's interest to make things run faster on it's own OS. This isn't about performance > How is that a good thing and what MS did bad? Who said it is any different? > Instead of improving the JVM, Sun decided to make money by suing MS. Yea they just abandoned the JVM in 2005. Hasn't changed since. > I remember using a popular bittorrent client called Azureus that ran on the JVM. Java for front end had requirements that most desktops of the time failed to meet. So what?

ygra 12y ago
>> The more important question is, was there anything that prevented Sun or anyone else from implementing those in the other OSes? > Yes, they made calls to native microsoft frameworks etc. Uhm, yes, that's how you run things on another platform. You have to call that platform's APIs. Sun's JVM won't be able to create an AWT window without calling WinAPI's CreateWindow. They have to call the native APIs at some point or another.
- easytiger 12y ago
  And what use are COM components on another OS that doesn't have them?
  - ygra 12y ago
    I think there was a misunderstanding here. I thought it was about normal Java APIs which just happened to use a better abstraction on Windows than what Sun was providing. You were probably referring to MS-specific Java APIs that were corresponding exactly to certain COM objects for functionality that didn't exist on other OSes, I guess.
    - easytiger 12y ago
      Yes, those are the things microsoft added. Another point was things they refused to add. Such as JNI & RMI. They used J/Direct for Windows specific system stuff. The simple facts of the case are that Sun license the Java brand to someone who wants to implement a JVM/API but you have to pass the TCK/JCK testsuite to keep the license. MS would have failed that.
      - AnimalMuppet 12y ago
        To add a bit: Microsoft added stuff to the standard packages (java and com.sun, if memory serves), but the stuff they added would have been Windows-only. So you write it on Windows, using what looks like standard packages, and then - surprise! - it won't run everywhere, it will only run on Windows. A nasty, hidden form of lockin. And Microsoft was doing this deliberately, trying for the lockin. That's why Sun sued. And, since the contract prohibited exactly what Microsoft did, Sun won.
        easytiger 12y ago
        Exact same policy with OpenGL before DIrect-X came along.

ygra 12y ago

>> The more important question is, was there anything that prevented Sun or anyone else from implementing those in the other OSes? > Yes, they made calls to native microsoft frameworks etc. Uhm, yes, that's how you run things on another platform. You have to call that platform's APIs. Sun's JVM won't be able to create an AWT window without calling WinAPI's CreateWindow. They have to call the native APIs at some point or another.

easytiger 12y ago
And what use are COM components on another OS that doesn't have them?
- ygra 12y ago
  I think there was a misunderstanding here. I thought it was about normal Java APIs which just happened to use a better abstraction on Windows than what Sun was providing. You were probably referring to MS-specific Java APIs that were corresponding exactly to certain COM objects for functionality that didn't exist on other OSes, I guess.
  - easytiger 12y ago
    Yes, those are the things microsoft added. Another point was things they refused to add. Such as JNI & RMI. They used J/Direct for Windows specific system stuff. The simple facts of the case are that Sun license the Java brand to someone who wants to implement a JVM/API but you have to pass the TCK/JCK testsuite to keep the license. MS would have failed that.
    - AnimalMuppet 12y ago
      To add a bit: Microsoft added stuff to the standard packages (java and com.sun, if memory serves), but the stuff they added would have been Windows-only. So you write it on Windows, using what looks like standard packages, and then - surprise! - it won't run everywhere, it will only run on Windows. A nasty, hidden form of lockin. And Microsoft was doing this deliberately, trying for the lockin. That's why Sun sued. And, since the contract prohibited exactly what Microsoft did, Sun won.
      - easytiger 12y ago
        Exact same policy with OpenGL before DIrect-X came along.