6 ms·

Business, Caltrain group looks to improve rail commute system

18 points by ak217 12y ago

ghshephard 12y ago
This doesn't get enough discussion - the reason why Google and others are running their own "shadow" commuter system is that the Bay Area rapid transit is abysmal. Compared to places like New York, Tokyo, Singapore and London, where everyone makes use of the transit system, in the Bay Area, only those who are impoverished would consider trying to get anywhere using bart + caltrain + public buses. Everyone else (for reasonable definitions of "everyone" - there is obviously a small group of people who make use of bikes to work) either (A) Drives (majority), (B) Is lucky enough to have a place of work near a caltrain station (rare), (C) Has an employer provided shuttle to take them from Caltrain to their place of work, or (D) Uses a Company provided bus. Compare this to a place like Singapore, where the MRT + buses are actually a very viable option to take you anywhere in the country. I don't know how feasible or reasonable it would be to have an integrated Bus, Bart, Caltrain transit system, with easy connection/transfer from each stage would be, but, at the very least, cleaning up the Bus System so everyone felt comfortable using them would be a nice start. I'm still hoping the various counties can get over their insecurity and eventually run BART around the bay one day.
- jpatokal 12y ago
  Well, it's also worth remembering that you could squeeze two Singapores lengthwise (or around four sideways) between SF and San Jose. And here, too, SF is hampered by strict building regulations and NIMBYism. In Singapore, the average residential suburb consists of a massive shopping mall directly on top of the MRT station, with dozens of 20-30 story residential buildings with walking distance, and more a short bus/light rail ride away. In the Bay Area, tumbleweeds roll through the parking lots around the average Caltrain station, and commercial or residential buildings more than two storeys high are almost unheard of.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  BART used to be a regular part of my commute, with the occasional Caltrain trip mixed in, and this: "only those who are impoverished would consider trying to get anywhere using bart + caltrain + public buses." is so totally out of line with my observed experiences that I have to wonder what on earth you were tracking.
  - ghshephard 12y ago
    I lived in Oakland (17th and Merrit), and worked at Netscape in Mountain View on Ellis. I took Bart + Caltrain + a company shuttle for 2 1/2 years. I tried taking buses as well - but it was a brutal grind, and not something anybody with a realistic choice would undertake. Bart + Caltrain is possible, particularly now that Millbrae exists, and you don't have to perform the absolutely wretched 4th and Townsend to Powell street transfer, which was the bane of my existence. But Public Buses are just not seen as first, or even second class transportation in the Bay area, so most people, and certainly the vast, vast majority of Silicon Valley employees, would never consider using them to get to work in conjunction with Bart+Caltrain. They are, at most, used as part of two-segment trip. (I.E. Caltrain + Bus, Bart + Bus). What I'm really trying to say, is that if the valley had a first class rapid transit system around the bay, so you could eliminate the transfer to caltrain, and just go from Bart -> Bus, it might be a reasonable alternative for a lot more people, particularly with company shuttles that run from the nearby bart station to the office on a regular basis. Speaking of which - I've been away from the Bay for a few years - have they finally unified the payment of Caltrain/Bart/Buses, or are they still on separate payment systems?
    - matthewarkin 12y ago
      You can use your Clipper Card on most transit systems (Golden Gate, BART, MUNI, VTA, AC Transit, Sam Trans). You can load generic cash that can be used on all the systems, or you can load the Bart "passes" (the $40 for $44). Some monthly passes will get you monthly passes on other transit systems, like a 2-zone Caltrain includes a VTA monthly pass. So yea you can use a clipper card everywhere but its still complicated. Also, if you load your clipper card online it will take days to actually appear on your card.
- natch 12y ago
  >only those who are impoverished would consider trying to get anywhere using bart + caltrain + public buses. Wow, this stands out as probably the most incorrect thing I have seen on HN in quite a while.
furyg3 12y ago
I know that many public transit services are (highly) subsidized, but it's a bit shocking to me that a) there is a huge demand for more capacity and b) it is simply a matter of adding more trains. It would seem to me that this is an easy investment decision for local governments to make. Many other transit services can't simply add trains without making other investments like improving switching capacity so that trains can run closer together, lengthening platforms, or adding tracks around platforms so that express trains can jump ahead of trains stopped at a station. If your current trains are at capacity while the infrastructure is underutilized (and there is plenty of demand) that's just fantastic news.
garagemc2 12y ago
You use Diesel Trains in San Fran. What the hell.
- dayyan 12y ago
  Caltrain operates diesel generators on electric cars between Silicon Valley and San Francisco. BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) is electric. MUNI train cars are electric. Many of the buses are electric. Cable cars operate on a cable run by electric motor.
iblaine 12y ago
Caltrain was not built to be a high volume short distance commuter train. Which is why the shuttles exist. The shuttles are a crutch.

18 points by ak217 12y ago

This doesn't get enough discussion - the reason why Google and others are running their own "shadow" commuter system is that the Bay Area rapid transit is abysmal. Compared to places like New York, Tokyo, Singapore and London, where everyone makes use of the transit system, in the Bay Area, only those who are impoverished would consider trying to get anywhere using bart + caltrain + public buses. Everyone else (for reasonable definitions of "everyone" - there is obviously a small group of people who make use of bikes to work) either (A) Drives (majority), (B) Is lucky enough to have a place of work near a caltrain station (rare), (C) Has an employer provided shuttle to take them from Caltrain to their place of work, or (D) Uses a Company provided bus. Compare this to a place like Singapore, where the MRT + buses are actually a very viable option to take you anywhere in the country. I don't know how feasible or reasonable it would be to have an integrated Bus, Bart, Caltrain transit system, with easy connection/transfer from each stage would be, but, at the very least, cleaning up the Bus System so everyone felt comfortable using them would be a nice start. I'm still hoping the various counties can get over their insecurity and eventually run BART around the bay one day.

jpatokal 12y ago
Well, it's also worth remembering that you could squeeze two Singapores lengthwise (or around four sideways) between SF and San Jose. And here, too, SF is hampered by strict building regulations and NIMBYism. In Singapore, the average residential suburb consists of a massive shopping mall directly on top of the MRT station, with dozens of 20-30 story residential buildings with walking distance, and more a short bus/light rail ride away. In the Bay Area, tumbleweeds roll through the parking lots around the average Caltrain station, and commercial or residential buildings more than two storeys high are almost unheard of.
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
BART used to be a regular part of my commute, with the occasional Caltrain trip mixed in, and this: "only those who are impoverished would consider trying to get anywhere using bart + caltrain + public buses." is so totally out of line with my observed experiences that I have to wonder what on earth you were tracking.
- ghshephard 12y ago
  I lived in Oakland (17th and Merrit), and worked at Netscape in Mountain View on Ellis. I took Bart + Caltrain + a company shuttle for 2 1/2 years. I tried taking buses as well - but it was a brutal grind, and not something anybody with a realistic choice would undertake. Bart + Caltrain is possible, particularly now that Millbrae exists, and you don't have to perform the absolutely wretched 4th and Townsend to Powell street transfer, which was the bane of my existence. But Public Buses are just not seen as first, or even second class transportation in the Bay area, so most people, and certainly the vast, vast majority of Silicon Valley employees, would never consider using them to get to work in conjunction with Bart+Caltrain. They are, at most, used as part of two-segment trip. (I.E. Caltrain + Bus, Bart + Bus). What I'm really trying to say, is that if the valley had a first class rapid transit system around the bay, so you could eliminate the transfer to caltrain, and just go from Bart -> Bus, it might be a reasonable alternative for a lot more people, particularly with company shuttles that run from the nearby bart station to the office on a regular basis. Speaking of which - I've been away from the Bay for a few years - have they finally unified the payment of Caltrain/Bart/Buses, or are they still on separate payment systems?
  - matthewarkin 12y ago
    You can use your Clipper Card on most transit systems (Golden Gate, BART, MUNI, VTA, AC Transit, Sam Trans). You can load generic cash that can be used on all the systems, or you can load the Bart "passes" (the $40 for $44). Some monthly passes will get you monthly passes on other transit systems, like a 2-zone Caltrain includes a VTA monthly pass. So yea you can use a clipper card everywhere but its still complicated. Also, if you load your clipper card online it will take days to actually appear on your card.
natch 12y ago
>only those who are impoverished would consider trying to get anywhere using bart + caltrain + public buses. Wow, this stands out as probably the most incorrect thing I have seen on HN in quite a while.

furyg3 12y ago

I know that many public transit services are (highly) subsidized, but it's a bit shocking to me that a) there is a huge demand for more capacity and b) it is simply a matter of adding more trains. It would seem to me that this is an easy investment decision for local governments to make. Many other transit services can't simply add trains without making other investments like improving switching capacity so that trains can run closer together, lengthening platforms, or adding tracks around platforms so that express trains can jump ahead of trains stopped at a station. If your current trains are at capacity while the infrastructure is underutilized (and there is plenty of demand) that's just fantastic news.

garagemc2 12y ago

You use Diesel Trains in San Fran. What the hell.

dayyan 12y ago
Caltrain operates diesel generators on electric cars between Silicon Valley and San Francisco. BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) is electric. MUNI train cars are electric. Many of the buses are electric. Cable cars operate on a cable run by electric motor.

iblaine 12y ago

Caltrain was not built to be a high volume short distance commuter train. Which is why the shuttles exist. The shuttles are a crutch.