5 ms·

Ruby on Rails Workshop for Women

10 points by smanek 17y ago

jrockway 17y ago
How do they determine whether or not you are a woman?
- gloob 17y ago
  They do type checking. Edit: The first hit on Google for "ruby type checking" is a post about adding it to Ruby, which would suggest to me that it's not already in there. Apologies for my ignorance on the matter.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - tumult 17y ago
    No, see, they run a unit test on you.
  - Andys 17y ago
    No, they'd do duck typing, which could be a potentially embarrassing situation.. :-)
    - camccann 17y ago
      Better that than type coercion!
  - jrockway 17y ago
    People are values, not types.
smanek 17y ago
Can you imagine the reaction if there was a technical conference for men only - and a women could only attend as the guest of a man? There are far too many grants/scholarships/opportunities that are explicitly only open to women or minorities (I'm a minority and it still bothers me). A hypothesis of implicit discrimination against group A does not justify explicit discrimination against group B. This happens all the time in the tech (and Math/Science) community and it really bothers me. This workshop in particular is one that I would have liked to attend, but am being excluded from because of my gender. Frankly, I don't know any women who would be interested in attending a 2-day RoR workshop so I can't go as a 'guest' - and I don't think that is too unusual.
- tptacek 17y ago
  I had a big long pompous comment here and it's just not as good as tumult's comment, which sums up the situation nicely: "Yeah, but I mean, if I took up a sudden interest in crocheting or something and the best way to get connected and start learning was to go to a crocheting convention that's 99% female, I'd feel a little awkward/discouraged." Bringing more women into the profession is a good thing. Having the woman in my life able to throw down in jQuery and even sometimes beat me on pentests is a good thing; you have no idea how much easier it is to build a company with your spouse. Let's find something else to get all huffy about.
  - dschobel 17y ago
    Going to have to disagree with you here. I appreciate your pragmatism on the matter and do wish there were more women in technology BUT I think principles are worth "getting huffy about", and any sort of discrimination based on a genetic roll of the die is fundamentally wrong. Always and forever. In every case. It's stupid, it's Wrong (writ large). Let's just not do it.
    - tptacek 17y ago
      Presumably you have a problem with all the other "women-in-technology" events that occur across the industry? Because you're tilting at windmills, and not even particularly good ones.
      - dschobel 17y ago
        As I commented elsewhere in this story, I think a more productive angle would be to try to advertise to and welcome women rather than say "no guys, unless you come as a guest of a girl". There's a subtle but fundamental difference in those two messages.
- mrshoe 17y ago
  This reminds me of all the clever kids in school during Black History Month who would ask, "And when is White History Month?" The canned answer is, "The other 11 months of the year are White History Months." This answer has become trite at this point, but the argument at its core remains valid. Unfortunately, there are serious biases in our society. Correcting those biases is a worthy goal, and one we should pursue. In the mean time, we can use Black History Month and Ruby Workshops for Women to compensate for the biases and at least try to treat the symptoms.
parse_tree 17y ago
Misleading headline: "Men are warmly welcomed when they find a woman who wants to learn Ruby on Rails who will register and bring a guest."
- Semiapies 17y ago
  That still bars the sort of guys who think discrimination against women in this industry is "hypothetical". (OK, fair enough - that's no bug.)
ksvs 17y ago
I wonder if Harvard policy allows them to discriminate in this way.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Considering that they already discriminate in the admissions process, I doubt this is a problem.
kenshi 17y ago
"We are seeking to create an attitude-free, newbie-safe and mama- friendly tech event to encourage women to join the Ruby on Rails community." Wot no rockstar and porn-imagery fueled hijinx? That's no Rails conference.
kenshi 17y ago
On a more serious note, I think its a good idea to hold outreach events for getting minorities working on your platform or industry. There arent many women in tech, trying to do something to increase the number is a good thing. A man whining about not being able to attend a single tech event is laughable. The industry (and the culture of the industry) is so overwhelming male dominated. It's not like you are missing out on anything. If events like these help get more women involved and participating in the industry or community, then more power to them. It certainly beats not doing anything to attract minorities.
- gloob 17y ago
  If events like these help get more women involved and participating in the industry or community, then more power to them. It certainly beats not doing anything to attract minorities. A cynical person could say that we already have minorities (e.g. Indians) - we just don't have the popular ones (e.g. women). That said, I agree about "a man whining about not being able to attend a single tech event". Sometimes we should just grow a pair and suck it up. This really isn't something worth getting worked up about.
  - kenshi 17y ago
    You raise an interesting point about how there are minorities and there are Minorities. Are Indians a minority in the IT industry? That probably depends on where you are, and how you are taking count. When I used the word minority, I meant it purely in a numerical sense. If I was a participant in a female dominated industry, I'd say holding outreach events to attract more men would be a good idea too.
- yummyfajitas 17y ago
  A man whining about not being able to attend a single tech event is laughable. The industry (and the culture of the industry) is so overwhelming male dominated. It's not like you are missing out on anything. Um, women aren't missing out on anything either. They are just as free to attend the same industry events as men.
  - 17y ago
dschobel 17y ago
While it's easy to appreciate the intent, there has to be a less backwards way to accomplish it. Maybe run a workshop where the behavior/environment you find offensive is explicitly verboten? Post it on the walls: this place is "attitude-free, newbie-safe and mama- friendly" and you'll almost definitely drive away the people you don't want there.
- kenshi 17y ago
  I don't think that would be as effective as directly marketing an event at a group of people. A group of people who might feel that traditional events in that field were just not welcoming. In fact, I think you'd just end up with a pretty normal tech workshop (male dominated), but without some of the (rare) 'edgier' content that some of the Rails guys seem to relish. Business as normal then.
lleahy 17y ago
There was never any intention to exclude men from the event, but rather enlist their help in broadening the community. MINSWAN everyone. We're opening the event up to anyone who would like to attend. Check out the blog post here: http://bit.ly/2E9RLm http://bit.ly/2E9RLm

10 points by smanek 17y ago

jrockway 17y ago

How do they determine whether or not you are a woman?

gloob 17y ago
They do type checking. Edit: The first hit on Google for "ruby type checking" is a post about adding it to Ruby, which would suggest to me that it's not already in there. Apologies for my ignorance on the matter.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- tumult 17y ago
  No, see, they run a unit test on you.
- Andys 17y ago
  No, they'd do duck typing, which could be a potentially embarrassing situation.. :-)
  - camccann 17y ago
    Better that than type coercion!
- jrockway 17y ago
  People are values, not types.

smanek 17y ago

Can you imagine the reaction if there was a technical conference for men only - and a women could only attend as the guest of a man? There are far too many grants/scholarships/opportunities that are explicitly only open to women or minorities (I'm a minority and it still bothers me). A hypothesis of implicit discrimination against group A does not justify explicit discrimination against group B. This happens all the time in the tech (and Math/Science) community and it really bothers me. This workshop in particular is one that I would have liked to attend, but am being excluded from because of my gender. Frankly, I don't know any women who would be interested in attending a 2-day RoR workshop so I can't go as a 'guest' - and I don't think that is too unusual.

tptacek 17y ago
I had a big long pompous comment here and it's just not as good as tumult's comment, which sums up the situation nicely: "Yeah, but I mean, if I took up a sudden interest in crocheting or something and the best way to get connected and start learning was to go to a crocheting convention that's 99% female, I'd feel a little awkward/discouraged." Bringing more women into the profession is a good thing. Having the woman in my life able to throw down in jQuery and even sometimes beat me on pentests is a good thing; you have no idea how much easier it is to build a company with your spouse. Let's find something else to get all huffy about.
- dschobel 17y ago
  Going to have to disagree with you here. I appreciate your pragmatism on the matter and do wish there were more women in technology BUT I think principles are worth "getting huffy about", and any sort of discrimination based on a genetic roll of the die is fundamentally wrong. Always and forever. In every case. It's stupid, it's Wrong (writ large). Let's just not do it.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    Presumably you have a problem with all the other "women-in-technology" events that occur across the industry? Because you're tilting at windmills, and not even particularly good ones.
    - dschobel 17y ago
      As I commented elsewhere in this story, I think a more productive angle would be to try to advertise to and welcome women rather than say "no guys, unless you come as a guest of a girl". There's a subtle but fundamental difference in those two messages.
mrshoe 17y ago
This reminds me of all the clever kids in school during Black History Month who would ask, "And when is White History Month?" The canned answer is, "The other 11 months of the year are White History Months." This answer has become trite at this point, but the argument at its core remains valid. Unfortunately, there are serious biases in our society. Correcting those biases is a worthy goal, and one we should pursue. In the mean time, we can use Black History Month and Ruby Workshops for Women to compensate for the biases and at least try to treat the symptoms.

parse_tree 17y ago

Misleading headline: "Men are warmly welcomed when they find a woman who wants to learn Ruby on Rails who will register and bring a guest."

Semiapies 17y ago
That still bars the sort of guys who think discrimination against women in this industry is "hypothetical". (OK, fair enough - that's no bug.)

ksvs 17y ago

I wonder if Harvard policy allows them to discriminate in this way.

jrockway 17y ago
Considering that they already discriminate in the admissions process, I doubt this is a problem.

kenshi 17y ago

"We are seeking to create an attitude-free, newbie-safe and mama- friendly tech event to encourage women to join the Ruby on Rails community." Wot no rockstar and porn-imagery fueled hijinx? That's no Rails conference.

kenshi 17y ago

On a more serious note, I think its a good idea to hold outreach events for getting minorities working on your platform or industry. There arent many women in tech, trying to do something to increase the number is a good thing. A man whining about not being able to attend a single tech event is laughable. The industry (and the culture of the industry) is so overwhelming male dominated. It's not like you are missing out on anything. If events like these help get more women involved and participating in the industry or community, then more power to them. It certainly beats not doing anything to attract minorities.

gloob 17y ago
If events like these help get more women involved and participating in the industry or community, then more power to them. It certainly beats not doing anything to attract minorities. A cynical person could say that we already have minorities (e.g. Indians) - we just don't have the popular ones (e.g. women). That said, I agree about "a man whining about not being able to attend a single tech event". Sometimes we should just grow a pair and suck it up. This really isn't something worth getting worked up about.
- kenshi 17y ago
  You raise an interesting point about how there are minorities and there are Minorities. Are Indians a minority in the IT industry? That probably depends on where you are, and how you are taking count. When I used the word minority, I meant it purely in a numerical sense. If I was a participant in a female dominated industry, I'd say holding outreach events to attract more men would be a good idea too.
yummyfajitas 17y ago
A man whining about not being able to attend a single tech event is laughable. The industry (and the culture of the industry) is so overwhelming male dominated. It's not like you are missing out on anything. Um, women aren't missing out on anything either. They are just as free to attend the same industry events as men.
- 17y ago

dschobel 17y ago

While it's easy to appreciate the intent, there has to be a less backwards way to accomplish it. Maybe run a workshop where the behavior/environment you find offensive is explicitly verboten? Post it on the walls: this place is "attitude-free, newbie-safe and mama- friendly" and you'll almost definitely drive away the people you don't want there.

kenshi 17y ago
I don't think that would be as effective as directly marketing an event at a group of people. A group of people who might feel that traditional events in that field were just not welcoming. In fact, I think you'd just end up with a pretty normal tech workshop (male dominated), but without some of the (rare) 'edgier' content that some of the Rails guys seem to relish. Business as normal then.

lleahy 17y ago

There was never any intention to exclude men from the event, but rather enlist their help in broadening the community. MINSWAN everyone. We're opening the event up to anyone who would like to attend. Check out the blog post here: http://bit.ly/2E9RLm http://bit.ly/2E9RLm