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People have longer memories than you're giving them credit for. Are you ever going to forget this about the NSA? I know I won't. At some point, a tipping point

People have longer memories than you're giving them credit for. Are you ever going to forget this about the NSA? I know I won't. At some point, a tipping point will be reached. See my comment above about slow change. It's frustrating that things are not happening faster, but that's why we have elections every 2 years. Unless you believe that mechanism is broken too, in which case we have bigger problems to worry about.

glitchdout 12y ago
You still believe the system isn't broken? You've got to be pretty naive, my friend. Or a damn great optimist. Obama was supposed to reverse Bush's policies. Instead he enhanced them. It doesn't matter who you vote for. The gerrymandering, the first past the post voting system, the electoral college, the two-party system, the two-party media, all the special interest groups, the corporations, the bribing, I mean, the campaign contributions... The system is fundamentally broken. Democracy doesn't scale. I doubt a country as big as the United States will ever be truly democratic.
- recondite 12y ago
  The system is working exactly as it is meant to - it's the one we elected, put in place, and are all a part of. You seem to be defining the system as one where the government bends to the will of the people at every moment (true democracy), but the Founders never intended that to be the case for America. In fact, they knew democracy wouldn't scale from their own experiences and historical precedence, and purposely created a Constitutional Republic, to protect us from that possibility. True democracies, almost by default, end up in mob rule and tyrannizing the minority. I'm not sure you want that. Now, the reason why the Snowden revelation is significant is because the constitution is directly being violated (namely the 4th amendment, Bill of Rights). It could be argued that some of the problems you listed are also violations of the constitution (namely campaign contributions and corporations being defined as people), and I would probably agree with you, but we can't just throw it all away because it makes us unhappy. I'm optimistic because the constitution has been violated throughout the history of this country many times before, and the result has always been reversion to the mean (either through a constitutional amendment or the violating act became irrelevant over time). Ironically, two of my favorite presidents - Lincoln and Obama - were two of the biggest violators. Hopefully, we've learned our lesson that the candidate's promises matter less than the era they come into and the system they represent.
  - jqm 12y ago
    "The system is working exactly as it is meant to.." Oh, I don't doubt this. I just wonder if the "meant to" part means representing the will of the people and acting with the interest of the general public in mind.
- gonzo 12y ago
  Given that the United States is a Republic...

glitchdout 12y ago

You still believe the system isn't broken? You've got to be pretty naive, my friend. Or a damn great optimist. Obama was supposed to reverse Bush's policies. Instead he enhanced them. It doesn't matter who you vote for. The gerrymandering, the first past the post voting system, the electoral college, the two-party system, the two-party media, all the special interest groups, the corporations, the bribing, I mean, the campaign contributions... The system is fundamentally broken. Democracy doesn't scale. I doubt a country as big as the United States will ever be truly democratic.

recondite 12y ago
The system is working exactly as it is meant to - it's the one we elected, put in place, and are all a part of. You seem to be defining the system as one where the government bends to the will of the people at every moment (true democracy), but the Founders never intended that to be the case for America. In fact, they knew democracy wouldn't scale from their own experiences and historical precedence, and purposely created a Constitutional Republic, to protect us from that possibility. True democracies, almost by default, end up in mob rule and tyrannizing the minority. I'm not sure you want that. Now, the reason why the Snowden revelation is significant is because the constitution is directly being violated (namely the 4th amendment, Bill of Rights). It could be argued that some of the problems you listed are also violations of the constitution (namely campaign contributions and corporations being defined as people), and I would probably agree with you, but we can't just throw it all away because it makes us unhappy. I'm optimistic because the constitution has been violated throughout the history of this country many times before, and the result has always been reversion to the mean (either through a constitutional amendment or the violating act became irrelevant over time). Ironically, two of my favorite presidents - Lincoln and Obama - were two of the biggest violators. Hopefully, we've learned our lesson that the candidate's promises matter less than the era they come into and the system they represent.
- jqm 12y ago
  "The system is working exactly as it is meant to.." Oh, I don't doubt this. I just wonder if the "meant to" part means representing the will of the people and acting with the interest of the general public in mind.
gonzo 12y ago
Given that the United States is a Republic...