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I know Greece has insane immigration from illegals and it's not going to stop. Imagine they take some barren Agean rock, ~ Manhattan sized and allow free immigr

I know Greece has insane immigration from illegals and it's not going to stop. Imagine they take some barren Agean rock, ~ Manhattan sized and allow free immigration with no minimum wage or constraints on voluntary contract for people over x years of age. Eastern Mediterranean New York in 15 years. What if the result winds up looking less like New York or Hong Kong and more like Mogadishu? There are no guarantees that this bold social experiment might not wind up going wrong in all sorts of ways. What will Greece do if it finds it suddenly has an impoverished crime-ridden city on its sovereign territory?

barry-cotter 17y ago
Deport everybody. Or just leave it there. Mogadishu/Somalia isn't even that destabilising to East Africa which mostly has more or less functional states. Also, the only reason Somalia doesn't have a stable internationally recognised government at the moment is that the US has a hate on for Islamists of any stripe. If they hadn't put so much effort into the puppet Transitional Government and the invasion of Somalia by their Ethiopian client Somalia (possibly absent Puntland, probably absent Somaliland) would no longer be a failed state, it would just be a really shit one. Seriously, imagine the Cosa Nostra take over the running of AgeanManhattan, protection rackets and all. Now, what do you call them? The government. They're a subsidiary government of Greece, which holds ultimate, internationally recognised sovereignty over AgMan, but whosoever holds the monopoly over the use of force is thus legitimate and sovereign. Also, seriously Greece is not a terribly impressive first world country but it is one. I wouldn't be surprised if they had paramilitary police units sufficient to subdue a dense, networked city of 6 million. I figure 20K would do it easily. They would more or less definitionally have total air superiority, which combined with large well trained, armed and co-ordinated police/soldiers would render any putative contest grotesquely one sided. Also, these people wouldn't be citizens, they'd be guests/subjects. No vote, no political power, no constituency. The Greek police don't play very nice with Greeks. I imagine the Greek Army would be nastier. (Leaving to go to bed, will reply to any reply tomorrow, hoping there's a discussion here when I get back, ciao)
- hughprime 17y ago
  Deport everybody. I'm not too familiar with Greek politics, but I'm sure there's a sufficiently large bleeding-heart constituency which would oppose any cruelty to the huddled masses just offshore. I wouldn't be surprised if they had paramilitary police units sufficient to subdue a dense, networked city of 6 million. I figure 20K would do it easily. They would more or less definitionally have total air superiority, which combined with large well trained, armed and co-ordinated police/soldiers would render any putative contest grotesquely one sided. Well yes, I'm sure they're militarily capable of doing it, but it's still enough of a headache that it seems to push the risk/reward ratio of this Aegean Manhattan firmly into the "not worth the effort" category.

barry-cotter 17y ago

Deport everybody. Or just leave it there. Mogadishu/Somalia isn't even that destabilising to East Africa which mostly has more or less functional states. Also, the only reason Somalia doesn't have a stable internationally recognised government at the moment is that the US has a hate on for Islamists of any stripe. If they hadn't put so much effort into the puppet Transitional Government and the invasion of Somalia by their Ethiopian client Somalia (possibly absent Puntland, probably absent Somaliland) would no longer be a failed state, it would just be a really shit one. Seriously, imagine the Cosa Nostra take over the running of AgeanManhattan, protection rackets and all. Now, what do you call them? The government. They're a subsidiary government of Greece, which holds ultimate, internationally recognised sovereignty over AgMan, but whosoever holds the monopoly over the use of force is thus legitimate and sovereign. Also, seriously Greece is not a terribly impressive first world country but it is one. I wouldn't be surprised if they had paramilitary police units sufficient to subdue a dense, networked city of 6 million. I figure 20K would do it easily. They would more or less definitionally have total air superiority, which combined with large well trained, armed and co-ordinated police/soldiers would render any putative contest grotesquely one sided. Also, these people wouldn't be citizens, they'd be guests/subjects. No vote, no political power, no constituency. The Greek police don't play very nice with Greeks. I imagine the Greek Army would be nastier. (Leaving to go to bed, will reply to any reply tomorrow, hoping there's a discussion here when I get back, ciao)

hughprime 17y ago
Deport everybody. I'm not too familiar with Greek politics, but I'm sure there's a sufficiently large bleeding-heart constituency which would oppose any cruelty to the huddled masses just offshore. I wouldn't be surprised if they had paramilitary police units sufficient to subdue a dense, networked city of 6 million. I figure 20K would do it easily. They would more or less definitionally have total air superiority, which combined with large well trained, armed and co-ordinated police/soldiers would render any putative contest grotesquely one sided. Well yes, I'm sure they're militarily capable of doing it, but it's still enough of a headache that it seems to push the risk/reward ratio of this Aegean Manhattan firmly into the "not worth the effort" category.