4 ms·

> I sit in an $800+ chair, with a desk with more space than I need, next to a huge window. I can get up anytime I want and go for a walk or break. Truly a repr

by pyre 12y ago

> I sit in an $800+ chair, with a desk with more space than I need, next to a huge window. I can get up anytime I want and go for a walk or break. Truly a representative case!

nilkn 12y ago
It's pretty representative of tons of professional workers I know from many industries and extremely typical in technology companies. Most high quality office chairs are pretty expensive; the Aeron chair that is used at so many tech companies is easily in that price range, depending on where you buy it (and in what quantity). Maybe the only thing that's slightly unusual is the window. If your company is not providing comfortable working spaces, then there are plenty of competitors which are. The real point, though, is that high school classrooms are often downright uncomfortable and unaccommodating. I'd rather stand all day than have to sit at those desks again for long periods of time. (And that'd be a lot healthier, too.)
- vacri 12y ago
  So your rejoinder to my point is "professionals have nice working conditions"? If so, perhaps go visit a call centre. I've worked in one where the floor staff had less than a meter of desk space each. Or clerks in a crappy government department. Or try being a taxi driver. Professionals also have a nice salary that keeps their interest; rarely is it below median wage. These shitty places don't have a lot of acting out, and in my experience, most of those who do act out are either still in adolescence or not long out of it. Seriously, the reason why the adolescent demographic shows 'anger, disdain, and need-to-rebel' is not going to be solved by giving them aeron chairs and free reign to use the toilet. Crappy chairs in high school don't help, but to imply that they're the cause of adolescent acting out? It makes me wonder how far removed from your own adolescent experience you are, not to mention how many other demographics you're thinking of.
  - wavegeek 12y ago
    Call centers are the archetype of a bad work situation. If you are aiming for classes to meet that standard, you are aiming very low.
    - vacri 12y ago
      I didn't say they were good. I said that they don't cause the problems we associate with adolescents in adult staff: ie: it's not the bloody chairs that cause adolescent acting out. Saying "I don't act out. I have an expensive chair" is not a counterpoint.
      - nilkn 12y ago
        You really don't think sticking somebody in an uncomfortable chair for 7-8 hours a day, giving them a desk that's too small to even accommodate the work they're expected to do, telling them to basically shut up all day, and getting on to them for even getting up to take a 3 minute stretch-walk is going to have any impact at all on adolescent behavior? There are reasons that all these things are done, of course. But pretending that they don't have an impact is just silly. There are huge costs to structuring classrooms like this. I recently spent all day in such circumstances and it really reminded me of how oppressive the conditions in high school felt. By the end of the seminar, I was just flat-out tired and frustrated and I wasn't listening to anything the speaker was saying. I just wanted out. Honestly, if decent chairs are too expensive, then we'd be better off throwing the chairs away completely. Have students stand. Just use standing desks that don't have to be shaped so that you can get in or out of the seat easily, thereby sacrificing half of the working surface. This solves the problem of not being able to afford reasonable chairs and it's far healthier for everybody as well.
        vacri 12y ago
        To quote myself: "Crappy chairs in high school don't help". I'm not 'pretending they don't have an impact'. Mind you, I'm also not pretending that $800+ office chairs are the norm for adult [office] workers, and that it's those chairs that underly the difference between adult and adolescent behaviour. Are you aware that adolescents who don't go to school - like home-schooled kids, early drop-outs, kids in developing countries with no access to high school - that those adolescents still act out? Or that adolescents have had a long history of being featured in stories as not behaving 'appropriately' (such as Romeo and Juliet), well before the advent of modern high school?
- pyre 12y ago
  Up-thread there was a comparison from office workers to high school students. Do you really think that the "average office worker" has a chair (in the price-range of an Aeron), an office with a view, and a flexible schedule?
  - ObviousScience 12y ago
    As a paper pusher during college, I had a $400ish chair, a desk with more than enough space to spread out the documents I was working with and the keyboard I was using, and could get up and take a quick break whenever I felt like it, just to stretch my legs, go to the bathroom without asking, grab a quick bit of food, or whatever. I could snack at my desk as I saw fit. While they preferred I not take personal calls at work, it was similarly acceptable to momentarily step out to answer important calls. They were more concerned I moved a bunch of papers than I sat obediently at my desk every second of every day. The only difference is that I wasn't sat next to a window, but across a cubicle farm from one, but I could clearly see out a bank of windows if I lifted my head a bit from my desk. So yes, I actually think that it's fairly representative of the experience of US office workers when compared to high-schoolers, which are given a much smaller work area in much worse conditions with considerably less freedom to deal with the reality of every day life.
    - pyre 12y ago
      Most of these comments follow a similar pattern: <Single Anecdote> Therefore, I believe that my experiences are fairly representative the entire population.
  - malka 12y ago
    Pretty sure the average worker can get up from his/her chair and stretch whenever he wants. A luxury high-schooler do not have.
mahyarm 12y ago
You can replace $800 chair with $200 chair, maybe a cubicle vs. an open office and no windows as a typical medium case insurance company / call center office worker. And if your at a place where the rent is cheap, your cubicle is probably bigger than his desk too. Still much better than a lot of student classrooms.

by pyre 12y ago

> I sit in an $800+ chair, with a desk with more space than I need, next to a huge window. I can get up anytime I want and go for a walk or break. Truly a representative case!

nilkn 12y ago

It's pretty representative of tons of professional workers I know from many industries and extremely typical in technology companies. Most high quality office chairs are pretty expensive; the Aeron chair that is used at so many tech companies is easily in that price range, depending on where you buy it (and in what quantity). Maybe the only thing that's slightly unusual is the window. If your company is not providing comfortable working spaces, then there are plenty of competitors which are. The real point, though, is that high school classrooms are often downright uncomfortable and unaccommodating. I'd rather stand all day than have to sit at those desks again for long periods of time. (And that'd be a lot healthier, too.)

vacri 12y ago
So your rejoinder to my point is "professionals have nice working conditions"? If so, perhaps go visit a call centre. I've worked in one where the floor staff had less than a meter of desk space each. Or clerks in a crappy government department. Or try being a taxi driver. Professionals also have a nice salary that keeps their interest; rarely is it below median wage. These shitty places don't have a lot of acting out, and in my experience, most of those who do act out are either still in adolescence or not long out of it. Seriously, the reason why the adolescent demographic shows 'anger, disdain, and need-to-rebel' is not going to be solved by giving them aeron chairs and free reign to use the toilet. Crappy chairs in high school don't help, but to imply that they're the cause of adolescent acting out? It makes me wonder how far removed from your own adolescent experience you are, not to mention how many other demographics you're thinking of.
- wavegeek 12y ago
  Call centers are the archetype of a bad work situation. If you are aiming for classes to meet that standard, you are aiming very low.
  - vacri 12y ago
    I didn't say they were good. I said that they don't cause the problems we associate with adolescents in adult staff: ie: it's not the bloody chairs that cause adolescent acting out. Saying "I don't act out. I have an expensive chair" is not a counterpoint.
    - nilkn 12y ago
      You really don't think sticking somebody in an uncomfortable chair for 7-8 hours a day, giving them a desk that's too small to even accommodate the work they're expected to do, telling them to basically shut up all day, and getting on to them for even getting up to take a 3 minute stretch-walk is going to have any impact at all on adolescent behavior? There are reasons that all these things are done, of course. But pretending that they don't have an impact is just silly. There are huge costs to structuring classrooms like this. I recently spent all day in such circumstances and it really reminded me of how oppressive the conditions in high school felt. By the end of the seminar, I was just flat-out tired and frustrated and I wasn't listening to anything the speaker was saying. I just wanted out. Honestly, if decent chairs are too expensive, then we'd be better off throwing the chairs away completely. Have students stand. Just use standing desks that don't have to be shaped so that you can get in or out of the seat easily, thereby sacrificing half of the working surface. This solves the problem of not being able to afford reasonable chairs and it's far healthier for everybody as well.
      - vacri 12y ago
        To quote myself: "Crappy chairs in high school don't help". I'm not 'pretending they don't have an impact'. Mind you, I'm also not pretending that $800+ office chairs are the norm for adult [office] workers, and that it's those chairs that underly the difference between adult and adolescent behaviour. Are you aware that adolescents who don't go to school - like home-schooled kids, early drop-outs, kids in developing countries with no access to high school - that those adolescents still act out? Or that adolescents have had a long history of being featured in stories as not behaving 'appropriately' (such as Romeo and Juliet), well before the advent of modern high school?
pyre 12y ago
Up-thread there was a comparison from office workers to high school students. Do you really think that the "average office worker" has a chair (in the price-range of an Aeron), an office with a view, and a flexible schedule?
- ObviousScience 12y ago
  As a paper pusher during college, I had a $400ish chair, a desk with more than enough space to spread out the documents I was working with and the keyboard I was using, and could get up and take a quick break whenever I felt like it, just to stretch my legs, go to the bathroom without asking, grab a quick bit of food, or whatever. I could snack at my desk as I saw fit. While they preferred I not take personal calls at work, it was similarly acceptable to momentarily step out to answer important calls. They were more concerned I moved a bunch of papers than I sat obediently at my desk every second of every day. The only difference is that I wasn't sat next to a window, but across a cubicle farm from one, but I could clearly see out a bank of windows if I lifted my head a bit from my desk. So yes, I actually think that it's fairly representative of the experience of US office workers when compared to high-schoolers, which are given a much smaller work area in much worse conditions with considerably less freedom to deal with the reality of every day life.
  - pyre 12y ago
    Most of these comments follow a similar pattern: <Single Anecdote> Therefore, I believe that my experiences are fairly representative the entire population.
- malka 12y ago
  Pretty sure the average worker can get up from his/her chair and stretch whenever he wants. A luxury high-schooler do not have.

mahyarm 12y ago

You can replace $800 chair with $200 chair, maybe a cubicle vs. an open office and no windows as a typical medium case insurance company / call center office worker. And if your at a place where the rent is cheap, your cubicle is probably bigger than his desk too. Still much better than a lot of student classrooms.