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Living in a Mission dump trying to sleep three people to a bed is not how you should be starting a business. Why do people think this is how you optimize for su

Living in a Mission dump trying to sleep three people to a bed is not how you should be starting a business. Why do people think this is how you optimize for success?

dasil003 12y ago
It just makes a good story feeding into the mythology of SV. Not to take anything away from these guys for their actual achievements, but the article itself is nothing more than color-by-numbers startup porn clickbait.
- kevin 12y ago
  You're right that most people's experiences don't turn out this way, but that's why it's worth reading. I also think it's unfair to say that this is nothing more than clickbait. It's easy to see a lesson about grit here and I think founders need to hear these stories as much as possible...regardless of where they are located. Also, it seems odd to me that you would say that you don't want to take anything away from their achievement, because this seems to be the only reason you're commenting. I think it's very obvious that Taro has no agenda to perpetuate the mythology of SV. It just happened to be in SV that these series of events happen to him.
tatterdemalion 12y ago
Right. Nothing against this company and all the best to them, but what is the larger narrative this story is building? Its really exploitative to tell young people that they should come to one of the most expensive places in the world and sleep in their cars so they can have the privilege of giving equity to Y Combinator. It's something really dark in California's culture (I have lived my entire life here). From '49 to Hollywood to now Silicon Valley, its a reverberating call for people to come here and get rich quick. And in any gold rush, its always better to be the ones selling the pics and shovels than the ones buying them.
- birken 12y ago
  This is what the press does. The median or average case isn't interesting, so they find interesting stories that are outliers and write about them. Is it illustrative of what normal people can and should expect? No. Is it useful in any way for somebody who wants to start a business? No. Is it interesting? Yes. The press' job doesn't involve building a useful narrative for people, it is just to write interesting stories. Changing the press is not going to happen, but if you disagree with this story, I highly recommend flagging it and if enough people agree that will drop it off the HN homepage.
  - tatterdemalion 12y ago
    I think the only reason to flag it would be the title, which is bad clickbait. The narrative problem goes deeper than the press's interest in rags-to-riches stories; journalists are not the only ones telling people that if they too would give up their comfort and security, they could be uplifted by the grace of VC investments.
    - dang 12y ago
      Have you guys not noticed that the article was not written by a journalist?
- coralreef 12y ago
  I think a lot of the time people miss the positive side of these stories. It's not just a story of impoverishment, its also story of adventure. If you were going to backpack around the world, you're certainly going to be sleeping somewhere dumpy, eating poorly, dealing with crazy situations, etc. But thats okay, because you've accepted that you're trading off comfort for some unique experience. When I was a teenager, my friend would crash at my house and we'd just hack on our websites, play computer games, and occasionally step outside. For weeks at a time, that's all we'd do. And honestly it was some of the most fun and fulfillment I've ever had. You don't really get to do that as an adult, except in extreme cases like when you try to build a startup. Life isn't about necessarily optimizing for comfort or salary. Sometimes its more fulfilling to do what you want to do, where you want to do it, on your terms.
jgreen10 12y ago
I'm assuming it was because they didn't have any money at the time, not as a business strategy. Personally, I'd stay home and build software that solves a real problem, but I'm not in YC...
dang 12y ago
I don't hear anybody claiming that. The article is just the story of what these guys did. The determination behind it, on the other hand, is damned impressive.
rosser 12y ago
I took the story as descriptive, not prescriptive. Did I miss some subtext suggesting otherwise?
kevin 12y ago
I believe Taro would be the first person to tell founders they should NOT follow their path to building a company. In retrospect, he realizes how ridiculously naive they were. The lesson that I take away from their story is that even if you don't have a good plan and it turns out it was stupidly inefficient, you can still succeed if you just don't give up. I see a lot of smart founders give up even with a good plan. The reason? They don't have grit.
paulhauggis 12y ago
Well, it also puts you in a desperate position and you make decisions (and possibly accept deals) that you normally wouldn't take. I've been on both positions. When I had no money coming in, it was always in the back of my mind and my business ideas were short-sited, not creative, and rushed. They all failed. I go to tons of startup events where new companies are presenting and the majority of business and products I see are exactly this. I'm not sure if it's because of a lack of experience of the reasons above. I only became successful when I had money coming in and didn't have to worry at all about it. I could focus on my business goals with a clear head. The money was a part-time consulting job. I was able to quit it after a year because I was making more with my business. It's been going strong for 2 years now. I guess I'm different. I don't think I would ever go h ycombinator. My first business idea involves very-little up front capital, but has nice returns. I'm going to use the proceedsa to invest in my next idea, that requires some capital. My ideas are always profit-centric. If it's cool, but has little chance of making money, I don't even consider it. I consider those hobby projects I might create for fun.

Living in a Mission dump trying to sleep three people to a bed is not how you should be starting a business. Why do people think this is how you optimize for success?

dasil003 12y ago

It just makes a good story feeding into the mythology of SV. Not to take anything away from these guys for their actual achievements, but the article itself is nothing more than color-by-numbers startup porn clickbait.

kevin 12y ago
You're right that most people's experiences don't turn out this way, but that's why it's worth reading. I also think it's unfair to say that this is nothing more than clickbait. It's easy to see a lesson about grit here and I think founders need to hear these stories as much as possible...regardless of where they are located. Also, it seems odd to me that you would say that you don't want to take anything away from their achievement, because this seems to be the only reason you're commenting. I think it's very obvious that Taro has no agenda to perpetuate the mythology of SV. It just happened to be in SV that these series of events happen to him.

tatterdemalion 12y ago

Right. Nothing against this company and all the best to them, but what is the larger narrative this story is building? Its really exploitative to tell young people that they should come to one of the most expensive places in the world and sleep in their cars so they can have the privilege of giving equity to Y Combinator. It's something really dark in California's culture (I have lived my entire life here). From '49 to Hollywood to now Silicon Valley, its a reverberating call for people to come here and get rich quick. And in any gold rush, its always better to be the ones selling the pics and shovels than the ones buying them.

birken 12y ago
This is what the press does. The median or average case isn't interesting, so they find interesting stories that are outliers and write about them. Is it illustrative of what normal people can and should expect? No. Is it useful in any way for somebody who wants to start a business? No. Is it interesting? Yes. The press' job doesn't involve building a useful narrative for people, it is just to write interesting stories. Changing the press is not going to happen, but if you disagree with this story, I highly recommend flagging it and if enough people agree that will drop it off the HN homepage.
- tatterdemalion 12y ago
  I think the only reason to flag it would be the title, which is bad clickbait. The narrative problem goes deeper than the press's interest in rags-to-riches stories; journalists are not the only ones telling people that if they too would give up their comfort and security, they could be uplifted by the grace of VC investments.
  - dang 12y ago
    Have you guys not noticed that the article was not written by a journalist?
coralreef 12y ago
I think a lot of the time people miss the positive side of these stories. It's not just a story of impoverishment, its also story of adventure. If you were going to backpack around the world, you're certainly going to be sleeping somewhere dumpy, eating poorly, dealing with crazy situations, etc. But thats okay, because you've accepted that you're trading off comfort for some unique experience. When I was a teenager, my friend would crash at my house and we'd just hack on our websites, play computer games, and occasionally step outside. For weeks at a time, that's all we'd do. And honestly it was some of the most fun and fulfillment I've ever had. You don't really get to do that as an adult, except in extreme cases like when you try to build a startup. Life isn't about necessarily optimizing for comfort or salary. Sometimes its more fulfilling to do what you want to do, where you want to do it, on your terms.

jgreen10 12y ago

I'm assuming it was because they didn't have any money at the time, not as a business strategy. Personally, I'd stay home and build software that solves a real problem, but I'm not in YC...

dang 12y ago

I don't hear anybody claiming that. The article is just the story of what these guys did. The determination behind it, on the other hand, is damned impressive.

rosser 12y ago

I took the story as descriptive, not prescriptive. Did I miss some subtext suggesting otherwise?

kevin 12y ago

I believe Taro would be the first person to tell founders they should NOT follow their path to building a company. In retrospect, he realizes how ridiculously naive they were. The lesson that I take away from their story is that even if you don't have a good plan and it turns out it was stupidly inefficient, you can still succeed if you just don't give up. I see a lot of smart founders give up even with a good plan. The reason? They don't have grit.

paulhauggis 12y ago

Well, it also puts you in a desperate position and you make decisions (and possibly accept deals) that you normally wouldn't take. I've been on both positions. When I had no money coming in, it was always in the back of my mind and my business ideas were short-sited, not creative, and rushed. They all failed. I go to tons of startup events where new companies are presenting and the majority of business and products I see are exactly this. I'm not sure if it's because of a lack of experience of the reasons above. I only became successful when I had money coming in and didn't have to worry at all about it. I could focus on my business goals with a clear head. The money was a part-time consulting job. I was able to quit it after a year because I was making more with my business. It's been going strong for 2 years now. I guess I'm different. I don't think I would ever go h ycombinator. My first business idea involves very-little up front capital, but has nice returns. I'm going to use the proceedsa to invest in my next idea, that requires some capital. My ideas are always profit-centric. If it's cool, but has little chance of making money, I don't even consider it. I consider those hobby projects I might create for fun.