6 ms·

William Gibson Writes the Future

70 points by Thevet 12y ago

chiph 12y ago
Actually, I'm getting tired of the dystopian future that I see everywhere in popular media. The only one that has even a hint of positivism is The Hunger Games. Why can't we have movies with the joy of discovery? The thrill of exploration and invention? The future doesn't have to be bleak.
- benbreen 12y ago
  There are some fictional worlds that come to mind that present a positive future (I'm not particularly well versed in it, but isn't that the whole appeal of the Star Trek universe?) What I think it boils down to, though, is that dystopias offer more narrative possibilities and stylistic choices for writers/filmmakers than do utopias. Utopian societies just aren't that fun to fictionalize, even though they're more fun to live in. There's a reason why more people Dante's Inferno than the Paradiso.
  - stinkytaco 12y ago
    But it's not an either/or proposition. There are sci-fi works that are just in the future without being overtly dystopian or utopian. Asimov's Foundation Series and the Ender/Bean books, for example. Literature is dominated with dystopia now not just because of narrative possibilities, but because it sells and perhaps speaks to a contemporary world view many of us share. I can't speculate too much on why dystopia is popular, but it's just clearly not just because it's easier to write.
- lesingerouge 12y ago
  I think "bleak" is just another point of view. Thinking back at how the 50's saw science fiction and the future in general, we could easily conclude that what we have was quite a "bleak" version of that vision. The general cyberpunk point of view is just a radical departure from the established line of thought (and forecasting). The fun thing to do when reading a cyberpunk novel is to watch for things that stay similar. And there are quite a lot. Actually, if you start pulling apart the shockingly weird things that are depicted (like for example, the SF-Oakland bridge becoming a shantytown) you notice that in the end society still works by the same rules as it does now. Which I personally find quite funny, given that one would expect technology to bring some kind of impact to cultural and societal frameworks.
  - thisGuysAccount 12y ago
    I agree with most of what you're saying. It's just another point of view, and it might only even seem "bleak" because Gibson is so nonchalant about the worlds he writes. They're futures that the characters just accept as normal, whatever they are. As another poster says, only the children realized that they were in space. If you read them with a sense of wonderment, and put aside the narrative, you see things like (in the book I'm reading) an SUV that can survive a flood and a massive accident with impressive safety technology. That's pretty cool. The rest of the book isn't about a bright, shiny happy future. Life isn't like that for anyone, and it's not something I could see being enjoyable to read or watch, as a style in a dramatic narrative. A comedy, maybe, but they tend not to be ground-breaking future-predictors.
- justifier 12y ago
  if you just want pure positivism: with joy of discovery and thrill of exploration; dive into the one piece manga where the main character is his own living ideal if you are talking specifically about spacey futures.. i'd suggest Space Station 76 it is a very stylised future that the tin might describe as space as the 70s dreamt it, but retains all of the social trappings of the day and contemporaries its 'positivism' stems from the most real hope there is: hope in the next generation; it is only bleak for the characters in how common everything is for them, and a child seems to be the only one on the ship who remembers they are all in space it failed to get picked up for theatrical release so it went straight to dvd after SxSW; amazon prime is the only web service i know of that has it even with its completely fun crutch of staging in a past's future, it is strangely some of the best futurism i've seen recently
- jballanc 12y ago
  Asimov, particularly in his "Robot" and "Foundation" series, famously had a rather up-beat outlook on the future and technology's role in it.
  - lmm 12y ago
    Foundation takes as its background setting the inevitable collapse of civilization. Many of the Robot stories feature accidents or murders, at least one is set on a very dystopian world (solaris? where people live one-to-an-acre and can't bear to be in the same room as another human), and the ultimate conclusion is a robot deliberately irradiating Earth and killing 90% of its population (because it's the only way to get humanity to spread among the stars).
    - jballanc 12y ago
      Yes, but unlike many other futurist novels, I've always enjoyed the way that the resolution of so many of Asimov's stories are inclusive of technology. I guess another way to say it is that many authors treat technology as somehow inherently evil. Asimov, on the other hand, treats technology as technology. That's not to say there are never mishaps or tragic consequences, but it's usually the result of human actions. The technology in his stories does not exert a malevolent force of its own. Some humans are good, some are bad, but technology doesn't change that.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  It's simple: utopia is boring. Utopias do not contain many opportunities for exploration and invention, mankind has always been at its most creative when constrained or in trouble. And for quite a good sized chunk of the world today such dystopian futures would actually be an improvement in the standard of living so even that is relative.
- ggreer 12y ago
  First, it's harder to write a compelling story in a utopia. The late Ian Banks's Culture series does a good job of it, though most of the books deal with the Culture's interaction with less-enlightened societies. After all, that's where the action is. Second, I'm not sure if media really is much bleaker than it was during say, the cold war. The threat of nuclear annihilation permeates many stories from that time. Moreover, many stories from the past (even rather optimistic ones) contain blatant sexism and racism.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    I'm half way through the Culture series, and it really is one of the most uplifting things I've ever read. So much of everything he describes is just so spot-on. It is not often I find science fiction that just sounds so plausible and so right. Especially when it has been written more than a decade ago. There's usually things that seem slightly out-of-date or plot-driven. Or worse, grabs onto a current trend or fad. But Culture seems to nail it and just makes you want to live there, no reservations. In fact, it's hard to stop and realize we still have so many problems to solve.
    - chiph 12y ago
      I've read the Culture series (Ian will be missed), and it certainly is very utopia-like. But at the same time, you have to wonder if the Minds are actually the ones in control. While most of the ships are on the up-and-up, the ones that are members of Special Circumstances seem to be much more pragmatic about achieving their desired results.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    I'm half way through the Culture series, and it really is one of the most uplifting things I've ever read. So much of everything he describes is just so spot-on. It is not often I find science fiction that just sounds so plausible and so right. Especially when it has been written more than a decade ago. There's usually things that seem slightly out-of-date or plot-driven. Or worse, grabs onto a current trend or fad. But Culture seems to nail it and just makes you want to live there, no reservations. In fact, it's hard to stop and realize we still have so many problems to solve.
- bane 12y ago
  I think it's because it's easy. Dystopia bring automatic conflict which is easy/lazy to dramatize. Still all isn't bad, it isn't Star Trek, but there are non-dystopic popular fictions: - Her - Stargate SG-1 and spinouts - Fringe - Warehouse 13 - Eureka - Sanctuary - The new crop of super hero shows and movies, Arrow, SHIELD, The Flash - Heroes - The short lived new V series - Dr. Who - Guardians of the Galaxy - Inception - Gravity and more.... in Literature there's a huge bounty of great non-dystopic stuff too. - The Golden Oecumene - The Culture series - The Night's Dawn Trilogy - The Gap series You just have to know where to look.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >Why can't we have movies with the joy of discovery? The thrill of exploration and invention? The future doesn't have to be bleak. Because they try to base them in the actual future, which WILL be bleak?
- theoh 12y ago
  PSA: Positivism is not the same as positivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positivism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positivism
stinkytaco 12y ago
Gibson is an enigma for me and I don't necessarily look forward to his return to sci-fi. He's a good writer and Neuromancer is definitely a groundbreaking work, but it doesn't age well. It reads like someone read a book about hacking and then made a story of it. Gibson himself has admitted to being a bit of technophobe and it shows in his work that he really doesn't understand computer technology. It warrants comparison to Jules Verne. It wouldn't be so bad if technology wasn't so central to his 80s and 90s sci-fi titles. I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I like Gibson's worlds, characters and stories, I just can't abide the details.
- bradbeattie 12y ago
  I understand your concern about Necromancer, but Gibson's essay In The Visegrips of Dr Satan provides some insights into his desire for a modern mythology, which is likely more what he was aiming for: http://www.williamgibsonbooks.com/archive/2003_01_28_archive.asp http://www.williamgibsonbooks.com/archive/2003_01_28_archive...
  - stinkytaco 12y ago
    I've read that and believe I understand what he's trying to accomplish, but I'm just saying the execution takes me out of it somewhat. Much like I read Greek myths (or Jules Verne, for that matter) and wonder sometimes how anyone could believe them (though I also understand that the word "belief" is perhaps not the right word when talking about the mindset of ancient Greeks when relating to their mythology), I read Gibson and just think: "This is how my Grandmother thinks about computers". I feel the world he creates would be better suited for straight up far future sci-fi where "believability" is couched in pseudo-technical terms we all know are fake but are able to accept within the context of the story or with less focus on the explicit technologies involved and more on how the characters interact in a world where this technology is simply a given. Part of it is likely his maturity as a writer and the time he inhabited during Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive. A time where, much like Verne, the technology was both new and alien, yet it was becoming increasingly clear it was important and soon to be omnipresent. A world where literature dealing with this technology was necessary, but where it was still mysterious enough to have creative license. It's not bad, but it doesn't age well.
personlurking 12y ago
IMO, the last well-done dystopian films I saw, and I've seen a lot, were The book of Eli and The Road. I think we need more big questions being looked at in this space rather than pure entertainment pushes.
- l33tbro 12y ago
  Check out the South Korean/Western co-production 'Snowpiercer' - a real gem.
  - spiritplumber 12y ago
    If you like it, hop over to any abandonware site and play the game Transarctica/Arctic Baron, which is essentially a RTS in the same setting. Very clever mechanics, too.
    - l33tbro 12y ago
      Very cool

70 points by Thevet 12y ago

chiph 12y ago

Actually, I'm getting tired of the dystopian future that I see everywhere in popular media. The only one that has even a hint of positivism is The Hunger Games. Why can't we have movies with the joy of discovery? The thrill of exploration and invention? The future doesn't have to be bleak.

benbreen 12y ago
There are some fictional worlds that come to mind that present a positive future (I'm not particularly well versed in it, but isn't that the whole appeal of the Star Trek universe?) What I think it boils down to, though, is that dystopias offer more narrative possibilities and stylistic choices for writers/filmmakers than do utopias. Utopian societies just aren't that fun to fictionalize, even though they're more fun to live in. There's a reason why more people Dante's Inferno than the Paradiso.
- stinkytaco 12y ago
  But it's not an either/or proposition. There are sci-fi works that are just in the future without being overtly dystopian or utopian. Asimov's Foundation Series and the Ender/Bean books, for example. Literature is dominated with dystopia now not just because of narrative possibilities, but because it sells and perhaps speaks to a contemporary world view many of us share. I can't speculate too much on why dystopia is popular, but it's just clearly not just because it's easier to write.
lesingerouge 12y ago
I think "bleak" is just another point of view. Thinking back at how the 50's saw science fiction and the future in general, we could easily conclude that what we have was quite a "bleak" version of that vision. The general cyberpunk point of view is just a radical departure from the established line of thought (and forecasting). The fun thing to do when reading a cyberpunk novel is to watch for things that stay similar. And there are quite a lot. Actually, if you start pulling apart the shockingly weird things that are depicted (like for example, the SF-Oakland bridge becoming a shantytown) you notice that in the end society still works by the same rules as it does now. Which I personally find quite funny, given that one would expect technology to bring some kind of impact to cultural and societal frameworks.
- thisGuysAccount 12y ago
  I agree with most of what you're saying. It's just another point of view, and it might only even seem "bleak" because Gibson is so nonchalant about the worlds he writes. They're futures that the characters just accept as normal, whatever they are. As another poster says, only the children realized that they were in space. If you read them with a sense of wonderment, and put aside the narrative, you see things like (in the book I'm reading) an SUV that can survive a flood and a massive accident with impressive safety technology. That's pretty cool. The rest of the book isn't about a bright, shiny happy future. Life isn't like that for anyone, and it's not something I could see being enjoyable to read or watch, as a style in a dramatic narrative. A comedy, maybe, but they tend not to be ground-breaking future-predictors.
justifier 12y ago
if you just want pure positivism: with joy of discovery and thrill of exploration; dive into the one piece manga where the main character is his own living ideal if you are talking specifically about spacey futures.. i'd suggest Space Station 76 it is a very stylised future that the tin might describe as space as the 70s dreamt it, but retains all of the social trappings of the day and contemporaries its 'positivism' stems from the most real hope there is: hope in the next generation; it is only bleak for the characters in how common everything is for them, and a child seems to be the only one on the ship who remembers they are all in space it failed to get picked up for theatrical release so it went straight to dvd after SxSW; amazon prime is the only web service i know of that has it even with its completely fun crutch of staging in a past's future, it is strangely some of the best futurism i've seen recently
jballanc 12y ago
Asimov, particularly in his "Robot" and "Foundation" series, famously had a rather up-beat outlook on the future and technology's role in it.
- lmm 12y ago
  Foundation takes as its background setting the inevitable collapse of civilization. Many of the Robot stories feature accidents or murders, at least one is set on a very dystopian world (solaris? where people live one-to-an-acre and can't bear to be in the same room as another human), and the ultimate conclusion is a robot deliberately irradiating Earth and killing 90% of its population (because it's the only way to get humanity to spread among the stars).
  - jballanc 12y ago
    Yes, but unlike many other futurist novels, I've always enjoyed the way that the resolution of so many of Asimov's stories are inclusive of technology. I guess another way to say it is that many authors treat technology as somehow inherently evil. Asimov, on the other hand, treats technology as technology. That's not to say there are never mishaps or tragic consequences, but it's usually the result of human actions. The technology in his stories does not exert a malevolent force of its own. Some humans are good, some are bad, but technology doesn't change that.
jacquesm 12y ago
It's simple: utopia is boring. Utopias do not contain many opportunities for exploration and invention, mankind has always been at its most creative when constrained or in trouble. And for quite a good sized chunk of the world today such dystopian futures would actually be an improvement in the standard of living so even that is relative.
ggreer 12y ago
First, it's harder to write a compelling story in a utopia. The late Ian Banks's Culture series does a good job of it, though most of the books deal with the Culture's interaction with less-enlightened societies. After all, that's where the action is. Second, I'm not sure if media really is much bleaker than it was during say, the cold war. The threat of nuclear annihilation permeates many stories from that time. Moreover, many stories from the past (even rather optimistic ones) contain blatant sexism and racism.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  I'm half way through the Culture series, and it really is one of the most uplifting things I've ever read. So much of everything he describes is just so spot-on. It is not often I find science fiction that just sounds so plausible and so right. Especially when it has been written more than a decade ago. There's usually things that seem slightly out-of-date or plot-driven. Or worse, grabs onto a current trend or fad. But Culture seems to nail it and just makes you want to live there, no reservations. In fact, it's hard to stop and realize we still have so many problems to solve.
  - chiph 12y ago
    I've read the Culture series (Ian will be missed), and it certainly is very utopia-like. But at the same time, you have to wonder if the Minds are actually the ones in control. While most of the ships are on the up-and-up, the ones that are members of Special Circumstances seem to be much more pragmatic about achieving their desired results.
- MichaelGG 12y ago
  I'm half way through the Culture series, and it really is one of the most uplifting things I've ever read. So much of everything he describes is just so spot-on. It is not often I find science fiction that just sounds so plausible and so right. Especially when it has been written more than a decade ago. There's usually things that seem slightly out-of-date or plot-driven. Or worse, grabs onto a current trend or fad. But Culture seems to nail it and just makes you want to live there, no reservations. In fact, it's hard to stop and realize we still have so many problems to solve.
bane 12y ago
I think it's because it's easy. Dystopia bring automatic conflict which is easy/lazy to dramatize. Still all isn't bad, it isn't Star Trek, but there are non-dystopic popular fictions: - Her - Stargate SG-1 and spinouts - Fringe - Warehouse 13 - Eureka - Sanctuary - The new crop of super hero shows and movies, Arrow, SHIELD, The Flash - Heroes - The short lived new V series - Dr. Who - Guardians of the Galaxy - Inception - Gravity and more.... in Literature there's a huge bounty of great non-dystopic stuff too. - The Golden Oecumene - The Culture series - The Night's Dawn Trilogy - The Gap series You just have to know where to look.
coldtea 12y ago
>Why can't we have movies with the joy of discovery? The thrill of exploration and invention? The future doesn't have to be bleak. Because they try to base them in the actual future, which WILL be bleak?
theoh 12y ago
PSA: Positivism is not the same as positivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positivism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positivism

stinkytaco 12y ago

Gibson is an enigma for me and I don't necessarily look forward to his return to sci-fi. He's a good writer and Neuromancer is definitely a groundbreaking work, but it doesn't age well. It reads like someone read a book about hacking and then made a story of it. Gibson himself has admitted to being a bit of technophobe and it shows in his work that he really doesn't understand computer technology. It warrants comparison to Jules Verne. It wouldn't be so bad if technology wasn't so central to his 80s and 90s sci-fi titles. I feel like I'm in the minority here, but I like Gibson's worlds, characters and stories, I just can't abide the details.

bradbeattie 12y ago
I understand your concern about Necromancer, but Gibson's essay In The Visegrips of Dr Satan provides some insights into his desire for a modern mythology, which is likely more what he was aiming for: http://www.williamgibsonbooks.com/archive/2003_01_28_archive.asp http://www.williamgibsonbooks.com/archive/2003_01_28_archive...
- stinkytaco 12y ago
  I've read that and believe I understand what he's trying to accomplish, but I'm just saying the execution takes me out of it somewhat. Much like I read Greek myths (or Jules Verne, for that matter) and wonder sometimes how anyone could believe them (though I also understand that the word "belief" is perhaps not the right word when talking about the mindset of ancient Greeks when relating to their mythology), I read Gibson and just think: "This is how my Grandmother thinks about computers". I feel the world he creates would be better suited for straight up far future sci-fi where "believability" is couched in pseudo-technical terms we all know are fake but are able to accept within the context of the story or with less focus on the explicit technologies involved and more on how the characters interact in a world where this technology is simply a given. Part of it is likely his maturity as a writer and the time he inhabited during Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive. A time where, much like Verne, the technology was both new and alien, yet it was becoming increasingly clear it was important and soon to be omnipresent. A world where literature dealing with this technology was necessary, but where it was still mysterious enough to have creative license. It's not bad, but it doesn't age well.

personlurking 12y ago

IMO, the last well-done dystopian films I saw, and I've seen a lot, were The book of Eli and The Road. I think we need more big questions being looked at in this space rather than pure entertainment pushes.

l33tbro 12y ago
Check out the South Korean/Western co-production 'Snowpiercer' - a real gem.
- spiritplumber 12y ago
  If you like it, hop over to any abandonware site and play the game Transarctica/Arctic Baron, which is essentially a RTS in the same setting. Very clever mechanics, too.
  - l33tbro 12y ago
    Very cool