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It's alarming how consistent HN comments are regarding working at Amazon: management is dysfunctional. Might Amazon secretly be one of the worst famous large t

It's alarming how consistent HN comments are regarding working at Amazon: management is dysfunctional. Might Amazon secretly be one of the worst famous large tech companies to work for?

kyllo 12y ago
I've heard from several ex-Amazon employees that average employee tenure is less than a year and a half. That is not a good sign.
sytelus 12y ago
According to the book "The Everything Store", Amazon employees pay for the parking ($20-30 per day). Coffee machines are ancient varieties but it's better than past when employees also had to pay for coffee. You get the desk that is downright cheapest possible thing you can get. And so on... If you are wondering how Amazon can attract any talent at all, the answer is that 70% staff is college hires that were promised significant stock. The caveat is that it doesn't even start getting vested until after 3rd year. Most of the hires leaves in about 2 year (attrition rate is being rumored as much as 70%). So their secret is feeding the growth engine on huge swaths of college hires that can be lured for stock options in distant futures with expectation that they will just leave before vesting starts. Well, I do love Amazon. One thing they have got absolutely right is obsessing about customers. Everything starts with customers, period.
- RyJones 12y ago
  Your parking is off by at least a factor of two, even more if you buy a pass.
  - port98 12y ago
    At least for Obidos $20/day, $13 with pass, $8 with pass + reimbursement. The pass wait list is, what 9 months now? You'll probably be in a new building by the time you get it.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- CalRobert 12y ago
  Why should parking be free? I have always ridden a bike or taken transit to work; I don't see why I should be subsidizing other people's parking. My previous two jobs both paid you not to use parking (which is effectively charging for parking, in a way), and I was grateful for it. Now I work in a city center and it's taken for granted you won't be driving.
  - Danieru 12y ago
    Because that parking cost is after tax. It makes no sense to pay payroll tax on the money that just flows back to the company, unless you're trying to slip in a hidden lower pay rate.
    - ihsw 12y ago
      I think you're overanalyzing it -- it's a cost to the employee, and any mental gymnastics about taxes is just guffawing.
      - anonbanker 12y ago
        Right. Because 1) tax loopholes don't exist, and 2) corporations don't find ways to make employees cover costs whenever possible.
  - funkyy 12y ago
    Company is not a social being or country. Its not you, who is subsidizing parking. Its company. If they would stop doing it in 99% cases nothing would change for you money wise. The way you think now is "I dont use it, so it should be paid." Maybe you should pay for bicycle parking as well?
    - lmm 12y ago
      I would happily pay for decent bicycle parking. Maybe if they were making money off it they would have more than 4 bike spaces in the 100-space car park.
    - 12y ago
- lettercarrier 12y ago
  So true. I like the fact they put the customers contact number on their shipping label.. in case of rain, snow, sleet etc can get a non rainy place to put large parcels.
- delecti 12y ago
  I don't think it's that hard to lure in a college hire. I say that as a college hire to Amazon. I would have accepted damn near anything, and their offer was more than generous enough. Also, my stocks started vesting after a single year. My total compensation at hire time: a $10k signing bonus with my first paycheck, another $10k after 1 year, and $45k in stock that vests over 4 years, with 5% at 1 year, 15% at 2, and then another 20% every 6 months. I could have literally received none of that and still jumped at the opportunity. Most college students don't have any idea what they can reasonably get in their field. As for poor management, this is heavily dependent on where you are in the company. I know people in some areas that love it, and people in others that echo the terrible management claims. My manager is great, and I've never felt like management above him was a problem. I've also worked alongside other teams who were very obviously grossly mismanaged all the way up. Amazon seems to really lack a unified culture, so making blanket claims like that are about as useful and valid as making claims about all companies in Milwaukee.
  - msg 12y ago
    Amazon is a service oriented organization. In the technical teams at least, there is a strong pressure to evolve to fit your niche, and grow independently behind the safety of a well defined interface. So a lot depends on the niche. Big awesome service, performance, security, frontend, startup, tools... Cost center or profit center. Secret consumer project or retail.
- crucifiction 12y ago
  Parking is subsidized for monthly parkers or is expensed for those who random park and pay $20-30 a day (at off site lots, it is in the middle of the city after all). You are right, they do not invest in coffee machines or desks, who cares? Latest numbers are that about 40% of engineers are 0-2 years in the industry, for a large tech company I don't think this is crazy far off from the norm if you want to stay agile. Attrition is high because people are actively managed out, compared to other companies I worked for before where you have longer tenures because people who are terrible at their jobs get to chill out and work on the least harmful things for the rest of their lives because management is too chicken shit to fire people who are just not that good comparatively.
  - anonbanker 12y ago
    You see? Nothing is wrong. And things that might be perceived as "wrong" are unimportant anyway. Move along, everyone.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
room271 12y ago
I'm genuinely curious about this, and I don't know anyone who works at Amazon, but if they really do have such a bad work environment and low tenure then how are they managing to consistently produce such good products (I'm thinking primarily of AWS here)?
- funkyy 12y ago
  AWS is bit different story/department. But hey - Amazon has probably one of the ugliest and most unreadable website from all cloud providers imo...
  - lmm 12y ago
    I love pointing out Amazon to histrionic designers. If the content is good - and Amazon's is - then design is very much secondary.

It's alarming how consistent HN comments are regarding working at Amazon: management is dysfunctional. Might Amazon secretly be one of the worst famous large tech companies to work for?

kyllo 12y ago

I've heard from several ex-Amazon employees that average employee tenure is less than a year and a half. That is not a good sign.

sytelus 12y ago

According to the book "The Everything Store", Amazon employees pay for the parking ($20-30 per day). Coffee machines are ancient varieties but it's better than past when employees also had to pay for coffee. You get the desk that is downright cheapest possible thing you can get. And so on... If you are wondering how Amazon can attract any talent at all, the answer is that 70% staff is college hires that were promised significant stock. The caveat is that it doesn't even start getting vested until after 3rd year. Most of the hires leaves in about 2 year (attrition rate is being rumored as much as 70%). So their secret is feeding the growth engine on huge swaths of college hires that can be lured for stock options in distant futures with expectation that they will just leave before vesting starts. Well, I do love Amazon. One thing they have got absolutely right is obsessing about customers. Everything starts with customers, period.

RyJones 12y ago
Your parking is off by at least a factor of two, even more if you buy a pass.
- port98 12y ago
  At least for Obidos $20/day, $13 with pass, $8 with pass + reimbursement. The pass wait list is, what 9 months now? You'll probably be in a new building by the time you get it.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
CalRobert 12y ago
Why should parking be free? I have always ridden a bike or taken transit to work; I don't see why I should be subsidizing other people's parking. My previous two jobs both paid you not to use parking (which is effectively charging for parking, in a way), and I was grateful for it. Now I work in a city center and it's taken for granted you won't be driving.
- Danieru 12y ago
  Because that parking cost is after tax. It makes no sense to pay payroll tax on the money that just flows back to the company, unless you're trying to slip in a hidden lower pay rate.
  - ihsw 12y ago
    I think you're overanalyzing it -- it's a cost to the employee, and any mental gymnastics about taxes is just guffawing.
    - anonbanker 12y ago
      Right. Because 1) tax loopholes don't exist, and 2) corporations don't find ways to make employees cover costs whenever possible.
- funkyy 12y ago
  Company is not a social being or country. Its not you, who is subsidizing parking. Its company. If they would stop doing it in 99% cases nothing would change for you money wise. The way you think now is "I dont use it, so it should be paid." Maybe you should pay for bicycle parking as well?
  - lmm 12y ago
    I would happily pay for decent bicycle parking. Maybe if they were making money off it they would have more than 4 bike spaces in the 100-space car park.
  - 12y ago
lettercarrier 12y ago
So true. I like the fact they put the customers contact number on their shipping label.. in case of rain, snow, sleet etc can get a non rainy place to put large parcels.
delecti 12y ago
I don't think it's that hard to lure in a college hire. I say that as a college hire to Amazon. I would have accepted damn near anything, and their offer was more than generous enough. Also, my stocks started vesting after a single year. My total compensation at hire time: a $10k signing bonus with my first paycheck, another $10k after 1 year, and $45k in stock that vests over 4 years, with 5% at 1 year, 15% at 2, and then another 20% every 6 months. I could have literally received none of that and still jumped at the opportunity. Most college students don't have any idea what they can reasonably get in their field. As for poor management, this is heavily dependent on where you are in the company. I know people in some areas that love it, and people in others that echo the terrible management claims. My manager is great, and I've never felt like management above him was a problem. I've also worked alongside other teams who were very obviously grossly mismanaged all the way up. Amazon seems to really lack a unified culture, so making blanket claims like that are about as useful and valid as making claims about all companies in Milwaukee.
- msg 12y ago
  Amazon is a service oriented organization. In the technical teams at least, there is a strong pressure to evolve to fit your niche, and grow independently behind the safety of a well defined interface. So a lot depends on the niche. Big awesome service, performance, security, frontend, startup, tools... Cost center or profit center. Secret consumer project or retail.
crucifiction 12y ago
Parking is subsidized for monthly parkers or is expensed for those who random park and pay $20-30 a day (at off site lots, it is in the middle of the city after all). You are right, they do not invest in coffee machines or desks, who cares? Latest numbers are that about 40% of engineers are 0-2 years in the industry, for a large tech company I don't think this is crazy far off from the norm if you want to stay agile. Attrition is high because people are actively managed out, compared to other companies I worked for before where you have longer tenures because people who are terrible at their jobs get to chill out and work on the least harmful things for the rest of their lives because management is too chicken shit to fire people who are just not that good comparatively.
- anonbanker 12y ago
  You see? Nothing is wrong. And things that might be perceived as "wrong" are unimportant anyway. Move along, everyone.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

room271 12y ago

I'm genuinely curious about this, and I don't know anyone who works at Amazon, but if they really do have such a bad work environment and low tenure then how are they managing to consistently produce such good products (I'm thinking primarily of AWS here)?

funkyy 12y ago
AWS is bit different story/department. But hey - Amazon has probably one of the ugliest and most unreadable website from all cloud providers imo...
- lmm 12y ago
  I love pointing out Amazon to histrionic designers. If the content is good - and Amazon's is - then design is very much secondary.