4 ms·

This is yet another argument for using HTML5 as much as possible instead of proprietary formats for public document interchange of formats fancier than plain te

by SiVal 12y ago

This is yet another argument for using HTML5 as much as possible instead of proprietary formats for public document interchange of formats fancier than plain text. Although you might have to give up some fancier features, you can get a near-equivalent of PowerPoint, Word, and Excel from HTML5 with a lot less risk and a lot more cross-platform availability for the people you send it to.

wfjackson 12y ago
You expect office workers who get confused when an icon is moved to understand and use CSS for layout? Probably even Latex is easier for this. And how can HTML5 do anything that Excel can do?
- SiVal 12y ago
  1) I don't expect office workers to directly edit CSS any more than I expect them to directly edit the PPT file format. In both cases, they need GUI editors. PPT already has a good one; we need something similar for HTML5 presentations. 2) HMTL5 can't do "anything Excel can do", which is why I didn't say it could. But a Google Drive spreadsheet can cover the needs of the great majority of people who need to publicly distribute spreadsheet documents. There are definitely quantitative analyses that I would much rather do with Excel than with Google's HTML5 spreadsheet, but it's very uncommon to publicly distribute complex spreadsheets, and I'm talking about document interchange formats. The kind of spreadsheet you might embed on half of a page of a presentation is the kind of spreadsheet that HTML5 could easily handle.
jxf 12y ago
I give a lot of talks, and would move to HTML5 presentations in a second -- but the editing tools just aren't there yet. Sometimes I really just want to draw some shapes and show the relationships between them without having to go to a separate editor for that. The best tool out there right now is http://slid.es http://slid.es but it doesn't come close to letting you represent things visually.
- yuhong 12y ago
  This reminds me that MS used to have an export to HTML feature in PowerPoint, but it was very IE specific and they removed it in PowerPoint 2010 I think instead of fixing it. This is also true for Word/Excel, to the point that even in the 2013 release you can set it so that it generates HTML that even MS's own IE10 won't render properly.
- panzi 12y ago
  There are tools that let you draw on the screen, no matter what other applications are running. At least there are such tools for Linux, but I'd guess there also would be one for Windows. Heck, I'd guess there is such a tool as a browser bockmarklet. If not, tell me and I write you one (would support Chrome and Firefox and maybe, just maybe, IE11 (canvas+pointer-events:none)).
- SiVal 12y ago
  Right about the editing tools. I'm hoping that security exploits such as this will cause governments and big corporations to start demanding safer document formats (especially for public or other widespread data interchange), which will drive the market for better editing tools. I certainly agree that ease of creation is a major limiting factor right now.

by SiVal 12y ago

wfjackson 12y ago

You expect office workers who get confused when an icon is moved to understand and use CSS for layout? Probably even Latex is easier for this. And how can HTML5 do anything that Excel can do?

SiVal 12y ago
1) I don't expect office workers to directly edit CSS any more than I expect them to directly edit the PPT file format. In both cases, they need GUI editors. PPT already has a good one; we need something similar for HTML5 presentations. 2) HMTL5 can't do "anything Excel can do", which is why I didn't say it could. But a Google Drive spreadsheet can cover the needs of the great majority of people who need to publicly distribute spreadsheet documents. There are definitely quantitative analyses that I would much rather do with Excel than with Google's HTML5 spreadsheet, but it's very uncommon to publicly distribute complex spreadsheets, and I'm talking about document interchange formats. The kind of spreadsheet you might embed on half of a page of a presentation is the kind of spreadsheet that HTML5 could easily handle.

jxf 12y ago

I give a lot of talks, and would move to HTML5 presentations in a second -- but the editing tools just aren't there yet. Sometimes I really just want to draw some shapes and show the relationships between them without having to go to a separate editor for that. The best tool out there right now is http://slid.es http://slid.es but it doesn't come close to letting you represent things visually.

yuhong 12y ago
This reminds me that MS used to have an export to HTML feature in PowerPoint, but it was very IE specific and they removed it in PowerPoint 2010 I think instead of fixing it. This is also true for Word/Excel, to the point that even in the 2013 release you can set it so that it generates HTML that even MS's own IE10 won't render properly.
panzi 12y ago
There are tools that let you draw on the screen, no matter what other applications are running. At least there are such tools for Linux, but I'd guess there also would be one for Windows. Heck, I'd guess there is such a tool as a browser bockmarklet. If not, tell me and I write you one (would support Chrome and Firefox and maybe, just maybe, IE11 (canvas+pointer-events:none)).
SiVal 12y ago
Right about the editing tools. I'm hoping that security exploits such as this will cause governments and big corporations to start demanding safer document formats (especially for public or other widespread data interchange), which will drive the market for better editing tools. I certainly agree that ease of creation is a major limiting factor right now.