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There's a lot of disagreement about a lot of the examples you mentioned. Serpico was talking about the police receiving envelopes of cash, which is universally

There's a lot of disagreement about a lot of the examples you mentioned. Serpico was talking about the police receiving envelopes of cash, which is universally considered to be bad. The TSA, phone metadata and the rest don't seem to be as clear cut. People tend to give the government the benefit of the doubt, moreso than they do the police. But unlike with the police, you can take direct action to remove bad actors in government. Vote, and convince others to vote. There's an election coming up soon. I don't agree with you on policy, but I want you to exercise your franchise all the same.

fleitz 12y ago
Voting is not generally regarded as direct action, it's representative action.
tedks 12y ago
Voting is the very definition of indirect action. Actions within representative democracy are not direct ever, but either agreeing, or begging. To vote with a politician is to say you agree; to "email your congressperson" is to beg. Personally, I never vote, because to play a rigged game is to be complicit in its outcome. If you vote, you can't complain about anything the government does -- you agreed with the existence of the system as a whole. Sometimes your team wins and sometimes your team loses, but to play the game, lose, and complain is merely to be a sore loser. It is perfectly possible to take direct action to stop police injustice. The Black Panthers are a good example. It's also possible to take direct action to stop surveillance. The Tor Project is a good example. Don't vote. Don't play a rigged game. Take real action and make real change. Stop begging and take control of your life.
- goldfeld 12y ago
  It's unfortunate that people capable of being well-informed decide to inform themselves in anti-government ideas up to abstaining themselves from the most effective, durable contribution society is able to to give as a whole. Sure, direct individual action and activism is very helpful, but doesn't replace electing good representatives and politics isn't going anywhere, it's only human nature and has been with us since the onset of society. Sore loser, are you kidding? Politics is a game, yes, but played by politicians. I'm not playing any game when I make an informed decision to vote for what I think is, well, less bad. I can complain all I want and do, regardless of my vote. It's my right to vote and then it's my right to complain when things are wrong, they're separate responsibilities and one doesn't infringe on the other. I think you need to view politics with a bit more nuance, because you're a big part of the problem, that is: we need less citizenship dropouts.
  - tedks 12y ago
    > I'm not playing any game when I make an informed decision to vote for what I think is, well, less bad Sure you are. You're playing the voting game. Your team tries to mass agreement for some candidates, the other team tries to mass agreement for other candidates. This agreement comes with the knowledge that you are handing your autonomy, and your right to complain, off to the winner of the game. If you lose you have no right to complain. You knew the risks. >Sure, direct individual action and activism is very helpful, but doesn't replace electing good representatives Direct action is exactly a replacement for representative action. Action can only ever be one of those two things. Similarly, representation is a replacement for direct action -- if you delegate your power to someone else, you cannot exercise it. >I think you need to view politics with a bit more nuance, because you're a big part of the problem I think you need to stop confusing yourself with nuance and realize that you're the problem -- you're handing over your autonomy to these people that are using you to build careers on corruption and subjugation. Stop confusing yourself with the trees and look at the forest.

fleitz 12y ago

Voting is not generally regarded as direct action, it's representative action.

tedks 12y ago

Voting is the very definition of indirect action. Actions within representative democracy are not direct ever, but either agreeing, or begging. To vote with a politician is to say you agree; to "email your congressperson" is to beg. Personally, I never vote, because to play a rigged game is to be complicit in its outcome. If you vote, you can't complain about anything the government does -- you agreed with the existence of the system as a whole. Sometimes your team wins and sometimes your team loses, but to play the game, lose, and complain is merely to be a sore loser. It is perfectly possible to take direct action to stop police injustice. The Black Panthers are a good example. It's also possible to take direct action to stop surveillance. The Tor Project is a good example. Don't vote. Don't play a rigged game. Take real action and make real change. Stop begging and take control of your life.

goldfeld 12y ago
It's unfortunate that people capable of being well-informed decide to inform themselves in anti-government ideas up to abstaining themselves from the most effective, durable contribution society is able to to give as a whole. Sure, direct individual action and activism is very helpful, but doesn't replace electing good representatives and politics isn't going anywhere, it's only human nature and has been with us since the onset of society. Sore loser, are you kidding? Politics is a game, yes, but played by politicians. I'm not playing any game when I make an informed decision to vote for what I think is, well, less bad. I can complain all I want and do, regardless of my vote. It's my right to vote and then it's my right to complain when things are wrong, they're separate responsibilities and one doesn't infringe on the other. I think you need to view politics with a bit more nuance, because you're a big part of the problem, that is: we need less citizenship dropouts.
- tedks 12y ago
  > I'm not playing any game when I make an informed decision to vote for what I think is, well, less bad Sure you are. You're playing the voting game. Your team tries to mass agreement for some candidates, the other team tries to mass agreement for other candidates. This agreement comes with the knowledge that you are handing your autonomy, and your right to complain, off to the winner of the game. If you lose you have no right to complain. You knew the risks. >Sure, direct individual action and activism is very helpful, but doesn't replace electing good representatives Direct action is exactly a replacement for representative action. Action can only ever be one of those two things. Similarly, representation is a replacement for direct action -- if you delegate your power to someone else, you cannot exercise it. >I think you need to view politics with a bit more nuance, because you're a big part of the problem I think you need to stop confusing yourself with nuance and realize that you're the problem -- you're handing over your autonomy to these people that are using you to build careers on corruption and subjugation. Stop confusing yourself with the trees and look at the forest.