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And hearing what you say makes me think of a present where I can stand under a tree and watch the leaves fall. Because it's October, the air is cool and crisp,

And hearing what you say makes me think of a present where I can stand under a tree and watch the leaves fall. Because it's October, the air is cool and crisp, and there's a park nearby. The resolution is much better too. As technologists, we have to make sure not to get too caught up in our own bubble. We have to remember what kind of a job our technology actually does for people, what kind of a role it actually plays in their lives. And I think the VR enthusiasts right now have a tendency to lose sight of that.

y4mi 12y ago
but doing this in the rift would take at most 30 seconds... doing it in real life is an actual chore which takes at least 30 minutes if you also consider the way back.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  A half hour walk to watch leaves in the park doesn't sound like much of a chore.
  - tedks 12y ago
    Are you kidding? Who has time for that? 30 minutes to sit around staring at trees? This rendered like crap in my browser, but I'd probably take a 2.5-5 minute break once a day to look at leaves. That'd probably be about all I could stand. What's the difference between 30 seconds and 30 minutes staring at leaves? They're leaves. They all look the same and they all act the same. They're mostly the same color. They don't do anything interesting. There's a disturbing undercurrent in industrial societies of fetishizing the "natural", and I think that's the only reason anyone would enjoy sitting in the cold looking at a goddamn tree for a half hour -- to make a tribal statement about how ~enlightened~ they are because they can ~appreciate~ the ~beauty~ of ~nature~. I mean, you're probably a developer, aren't you? Your time is valuable. Why waste it looking at a tree? Just keep this open in a small tile on your desktop and glance at it once every few hours if you really like leaf videos.
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      Are you attempting satire? Is very hard to tell. edit - just in case it isn't satire. I habitually watch trees quite a lot. I have been obsessing a bit recently with how light reflects off particularly waxy leaves making the colours change with the sky. It doesn't particularly matter that they are trees though, I can watch buildings in much the same way. Is more to do with an appreciation of light.
    - joverholt 12y ago
      I stare at leaves because sometimes, they really do change after 30 seconds. If you have a wind blowing, it can be "snowing" leaves, which does bring me some level of enjoyment to watch. It's a good way to clear my mind and think about things without really trying to think about things. Multiply that "goddamn tree" by say, a forest, and then stare at it, looking at the different patterns created by the mixing of trees. Then come back the next day and see how things have changed. Or, just open up you editor and stare at your code. Same diff.
    - dntrkv 12y ago
      For me, it's not so much the leaves or the trees themselves but taking a moment out of my day just to sit there and do nothing. It's a form of meditation. The leaves, trees, waves, etc... are just there as a sort of visualization for your moment, and usually you'll notice things about them that you normally don't. Just because my time is valuable doesn't mean I'm going to make sure I spend every minute of my time as efficiently as possible. Sometimes I just need to sit on the beach and watch the waves crash. Or sit on a park bench and watch the people walking around.
    - Hytosys 12y ago
      If this isn't satire then I'm amazed at how cluelessly condescending one could be. >I mean, you're probably a developer, aren't you? Your time is valuable. Why waste it looking at a tree? I have a hunch that not many people die peacefully thinking "wow, the most important way I spent my valuable time was coding" when reflecting on life and happiness. Coming from someone who does enjoy sitting in nature for hours at a time observing life, it's mostly about forgetting all the "important" bullshit that will be waiting for me when I get back home. The experience also gets 10x better when you're out in nature with someone who you care about.
- zentiggr 12y ago
  I would translate "actual chore" as "actual pleasure". A decent part of my vacation time tends to be just being outside . Not even having to do anything, just feeling the fresh air, listening, being. Sharing. Just might go outside right now for a few minutes. See ya !
rglover 12y ago
Fully agree! I prefer reality (though, this is one of my favorite philosophical arguments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3WGf9pX0A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3WGf9pX0A). You're right, the bubble is something to avoid going too far with. Personally I don't "get it," but I can see why others might want it and don't discount it as a possible (likely) future. A personal theory (though, I limit myself from saying it because it sounds kind of nuts) is that the world we're in currently (i.e. our "real world") is merely the advanced simulation of a past civilization. In essence, the Matrix is real and we're hooked into a machine somewhere. Though, I can't say I fully agree with dystopian humans-as-robot-fuel theory.
msutherl 12y ago
Ok, let's get things straight. Watching this is nothing like walking to the park and standing under a tree. It's cinema. It's a completely different experience. You wouldn't say "why would you watch a Tarkovsky film when you can just go to Russia?" So, what kind of role could VR play in our lives? Creating more immersive, interactive cinema. This is an old idea from the 60's: http://www.vasulka.org/Kitchen/PDF_ExpandedCinema/ExpandedCinema.html http://www.vasulka.org/Kitchen/PDF_ExpandedCinema/ExpandedCi.... What I wish you said, however, is that we have a responsibility to remember what we need to do for people. The argument for standing under a tree rather than watching this could be: you can have a totally enveloping, tranquil experience without burning coal, without fracking, without necessitating the employment of exploited factory workers, without supporting the mass extraction of resources (and corresponding environmental destruction), and without adding another broken gizmo to the landfill in 5 years. For those working on the technology, rather than building escapist fantasy worlds, you could work to make our actually existing, real, external world (note: fallacy), which is dysfunctional for billions of people, more functional. You could also refuse to build escapist fantasy worlds for people who themselves could be making a difference in the world rather than consuming resources and funneling money to the wealthy corporations in exchange for "virtual goods." And you could also do this through VR. HMD's don't even necessarily need to display virtual worlds. Virtual worlds don't need to be purely hedonic. All that said, maybe lying on a tempur-pedic mattress and staring up at an artificial autumn-scape is exactly what someone needs. Who can say.
- coldtea 12y ago
  >Ok, let's get things straight. Watching this is nothing like walking to the park and standing under a tree. It's cinema. It's a completely different experience. You wouldn't say "why would you watch a Tarkovsky film when you can just go to Russia?" No, but a lot of VR stuff is BS recreation of reality -- not a Tarkovsky.
chadzawistowski 12y ago
Although I grew up in New England with its excellent fall colors, I'm currently far away. Watching this was a touching reminder of Autumn back home.

y4mi 12y ago

but doing this in the rift would take at most 30 seconds... doing it in real life is an actual chore which takes at least 30 minutes if you also consider the way back.

lotsofmangos 12y ago
A half hour walk to watch leaves in the park doesn't sound like much of a chore.
- tedks 12y ago
  Are you kidding? Who has time for that? 30 minutes to sit around staring at trees? This rendered like crap in my browser, but I'd probably take a 2.5-5 minute break once a day to look at leaves. That'd probably be about all I could stand. What's the difference between 30 seconds and 30 minutes staring at leaves? They're leaves. They all look the same and they all act the same. They're mostly the same color. They don't do anything interesting. There's a disturbing undercurrent in industrial societies of fetishizing the "natural", and I think that's the only reason anyone would enjoy sitting in the cold looking at a goddamn tree for a half hour -- to make a tribal statement about how ~enlightened~ they are because they can ~appreciate~ the ~beauty~ of ~nature~. I mean, you're probably a developer, aren't you? Your time is valuable. Why waste it looking at a tree? Just keep this open in a small tile on your desktop and glance at it once every few hours if you really like leaf videos.
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    Are you attempting satire? Is very hard to tell. edit - just in case it isn't satire. I habitually watch trees quite a lot. I have been obsessing a bit recently with how light reflects off particularly waxy leaves making the colours change with the sky. It doesn't particularly matter that they are trees though, I can watch buildings in much the same way. Is more to do with an appreciation of light.
  - joverholt 12y ago
    I stare at leaves because sometimes, they really do change after 30 seconds. If you have a wind blowing, it can be "snowing" leaves, which does bring me some level of enjoyment to watch. It's a good way to clear my mind and think about things without really trying to think about things. Multiply that "goddamn tree" by say, a forest, and then stare at it, looking at the different patterns created by the mixing of trees. Then come back the next day and see how things have changed. Or, just open up you editor and stare at your code. Same diff.
  - dntrkv 12y ago
    For me, it's not so much the leaves or the trees themselves but taking a moment out of my day just to sit there and do nothing. It's a form of meditation. The leaves, trees, waves, etc... are just there as a sort of visualization for your moment, and usually you'll notice things about them that you normally don't. Just because my time is valuable doesn't mean I'm going to make sure I spend every minute of my time as efficiently as possible. Sometimes I just need to sit on the beach and watch the waves crash. Or sit on a park bench and watch the people walking around.
  - Hytosys 12y ago
    If this isn't satire then I'm amazed at how cluelessly condescending one could be. >I mean, you're probably a developer, aren't you? Your time is valuable. Why waste it looking at a tree? I have a hunch that not many people die peacefully thinking "wow, the most important way I spent my valuable time was coding" when reflecting on life and happiness. Coming from someone who does enjoy sitting in nature for hours at a time observing life, it's mostly about forgetting all the "important" bullshit that will be waiting for me when I get back home. The experience also gets 10x better when you're out in nature with someone who you care about.
zentiggr 12y ago
I would translate "actual chore" as "actual pleasure". A decent part of my vacation time tends to be just being outside . Not even having to do anything, just feeling the fresh air, listening, being. Sharing. Just might go outside right now for a few minutes. See ya !

rglover 12y ago

Fully agree! I prefer reality (though, this is one of my favorite philosophical arguments: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3WGf9pX0A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OA3WGf9pX0A). You're right, the bubble is something to avoid going too far with. Personally I don't "get it," but I can see why others might want it and don't discount it as a possible (likely) future. A personal theory (though, I limit myself from saying it because it sounds kind of nuts) is that the world we're in currently (i.e. our "real world") is merely the advanced simulation of a past civilization. In essence, the Matrix is real and we're hooked into a machine somewhere. Though, I can't say I fully agree with dystopian humans-as-robot-fuel theory.

msutherl 12y ago

Ok, let's get things straight. Watching this is nothing like walking to the park and standing under a tree. It's cinema. It's a completely different experience. You wouldn't say "why would you watch a Tarkovsky film when you can just go to Russia?" So, what kind of role could VR play in our lives? Creating more immersive, interactive cinema. This is an old idea from the 60's: http://www.vasulka.org/Kitchen/PDF_ExpandedCinema/ExpandedCinema.html http://www.vasulka.org/Kitchen/PDF_ExpandedCinema/ExpandedCi.... What I wish you said, however, is that we have a responsibility to remember what we need to do for people. The argument for standing under a tree rather than watching this could be: you can have a totally enveloping, tranquil experience without burning coal, without fracking, without necessitating the employment of exploited factory workers, without supporting the mass extraction of resources (and corresponding environmental destruction), and without adding another broken gizmo to the landfill in 5 years. For those working on the technology, rather than building escapist fantasy worlds, you could work to make our actually existing, real, external world (note: fallacy), which is dysfunctional for billions of people, more functional. You could also refuse to build escapist fantasy worlds for people who themselves could be making a difference in the world rather than consuming resources and funneling money to the wealthy corporations in exchange for "virtual goods." And you could also do this through VR. HMD's don't even necessarily need to display virtual worlds. Virtual worlds don't need to be purely hedonic. All that said, maybe lying on a tempur-pedic mattress and staring up at an artificial autumn-scape is exactly what someone needs. Who can say.

coldtea 12y ago
>Ok, let's get things straight. Watching this is nothing like walking to the park and standing under a tree. It's cinema. It's a completely different experience. You wouldn't say "why would you watch a Tarkovsky film when you can just go to Russia?" No, but a lot of VR stuff is BS recreation of reality -- not a Tarkovsky.

chadzawistowski 12y ago

Although I grew up in New England with its excellent fall colors, I'm currently far away. Watching this was a touching reminder of Autumn back home.