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Is anyone else simply getting tired of the number of ways google is attempting to (in their words) "replace JavaScript as the lingua franca of web development o

by ep103 12y ago

Is anyone else simply getting tired of the number of ways google is attempting to (in their words) "replace JavaScript as the lingua franca of web development on the open web platform"? Dart, Angular, and AtScript are just the three most recent iterations of completely overhauling js for and by Google.

dragonwriter 12y ago
No. I appreciate Google (and others) trying to make things better without breaking what works now. Also, only Dart and AtScript are attempts to overhaul/replace JS, Angular is just a library (with versions for JS and Dart), not attempt to overhaul JS.
- malandrew 12y ago
  This isn't entirely accurate. They aren't breaking what works in the browser, but they are breaking lots of the toolchains developers already use. I would much more appreciate these efforts if they started from a position of trying to do as much as possible in a way that is compatible with the existing development tooling and then building their incompatible extensions on top of that tooling.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > They aren't breaking what works in the browser, but they are breaking lots of the toolchains developers already use. How? I mean, if they deleted JS from Chrome in favor of Dart (but not AtScript, which is a JS superset) it might break toolchains that developers use, but making Dart (with dart2js) and AtScript available doesn't break anything.
georgemcbay 12y ago
No, I'm getting tired of other parties (most notably Mozilla) doing whatever they can to block such efforts on political rather than technical merits. Do we really want to be stuck with a mostly stagnant JavaScript forever? Ugh.
- ganarajpr 12y ago
  +1. I hate this part about Mozilla and Apple. I dont have qualms about javascript. It has its good parts and as a full time javascript contractor I earn my living with javascript. But... I dont really want the next generation of developers to be stuck with whatever we have today. I am not in favor of "Here is what you get - do all your innovations inside this box" mentality. Yes, there is scope for improving javascript or ECMAscript but there are limits to this. As Peter Thiel says in his book - this is incremental-ism. This will never produce 0 to 1. In order to produce something like that people should be allowed to innovate - even if initially they have to do stuff like this AtScript or Dart or TypeScript! Criticizing those attempts as "breaking the existing tool-chain" is as foolish as criticizing a spaceship because it does not make use of roads.
- aikah 12y ago
  Well,the truth is Mozilla never blocked anything.They were on board with Adobe about ES4(basically actionscript3 in the browser).It's brands like Microsoft and Apple who ironically were the most vocal against any change in javascript.

by ep103 12y ago

dragonwriter 12y ago

No. I appreciate Google (and others) trying to make things better without breaking what works now. Also, only Dart and AtScript are attempts to overhaul/replace JS, Angular is just a library (with versions for JS and Dart), not attempt to overhaul JS.

malandrew 12y ago
This isn't entirely accurate. They aren't breaking what works in the browser, but they are breaking lots of the toolchains developers already use. I would much more appreciate these efforts if they started from a position of trying to do as much as possible in a way that is compatible with the existing development tooling and then building their incompatible extensions on top of that tooling.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > They aren't breaking what works in the browser, but they are breaking lots of the toolchains developers already use. How? I mean, if they deleted JS from Chrome in favor of Dart (but not AtScript, which is a JS superset) it might break toolchains that developers use, but making Dart (with dart2js) and AtScript available doesn't break anything.

georgemcbay 12y ago

No, I'm getting tired of other parties (most notably Mozilla) doing whatever they can to block such efforts on political rather than technical merits. Do we really want to be stuck with a mostly stagnant JavaScript forever? Ugh.

ganarajpr 12y ago
+1. I hate this part about Mozilla and Apple. I dont have qualms about javascript. It has its good parts and as a full time javascript contractor I earn my living with javascript. But... I dont really want the next generation of developers to be stuck with whatever we have today. I am not in favor of "Here is what you get - do all your innovations inside this box" mentality. Yes, there is scope for improving javascript or ECMAscript but there are limits to this. As Peter Thiel says in his book - this is incremental-ism. This will never produce 0 to 1. In order to produce something like that people should be allowed to innovate - even if initially they have to do stuff like this AtScript or Dart or TypeScript! Criticizing those attempts as "breaking the existing tool-chain" is as foolish as criticizing a spaceship because it does not make use of roads.
aikah 12y ago
Well,the truth is Mozilla never blocked anything.They were on board with Adobe about ES4(basically actionscript3 in the browser).It's brands like Microsoft and Apple who ironically were the most vocal against any change in javascript.