6 ms·

This is something I've always wondered - how do programmers who don't natively speak, read, or write English cope with the sheer amount of literature they have

by yen223 12y ago

This is something I've always wondered - how do programmers who don't natively speak, read, or write English cope with the sheer amount of literature they have to parse to have a career programming?

sanxiyn 12y ago
I don't natively speak, read, or write English. Speaking for myself, you cope by studying English. Blood, toil, tears, and sweat are involved.
- yen223 12y ago
  For what it's worth, your English is pretty good.
- aerovistae 12y ago
  ...uh...seems to have paid off well for you.
- bdcravens 12y ago
  Based on the limited sample, you write it better than many "native" speakers.
- gone35 12y ago
  I don't natively speak, read, or write English. Damn. I wish I could show your comment to people like John Searle.
Tehnix 12y ago
Very easily. But that might be because in Denmark, it's rather the exception than the norm that people don't know english. Of course with varying degrees of proficiency.
rdeboo 12y ago
In my country (Netherlands) people speak English quite well. My entire (CS) master was in English. So that means literature, class, assignments, exams, everything. I must say it did feel kind of awkward sometimes if you sit in a class where every single student and the teacher is native Dutch speaker, and still the course has to be done in English. But I think in the end it is worth it, because you learn all the terminology in English. Actually it is funny, I only realized while reading this discussion that I always google my programming questions in English. It never occurred to me do google them in Dutch. I will try it today to see the results :)
- mattmanser 12y ago
  Hehe, slight understatement. The Dutch learn English from 8 is it? Being Dutch, I guess you can't really relate to any of the other foreigners in the thread. The Dutch all speak English so well you can move there and never bother learning Dutch. And unlike the French, who will fake not understanding, they seem positively delighted to get a chance to use English. In fact, I've had other English people complain to me that it's often very hard to get them to speak Dutch to you once they know you're English. The only time I've ever heard anyone complain is one night out in Amsterdam where we met up with some Dutch people and one of them said "Oh no, are we speaking English tonight?" Although I'm a bit surprised they'd have entire uni courses in a foreign language, but I guess it makes sense in programming precisely because it's such an advantage.
  - psykovsky 12y ago
    I spent 4 years and some in NL(Den Haag) and I never got past the numbers and greetings in Dutch... By speaking English everywhere and with almost everyone made me never try and learn it.
emsy 12y ago
I Germany, most professional literature is translated into German. Most developers I know prefer the English version though.
stevewilhelm 12y ago
OT: > "it's rather the exception than the norm" > "Blood, toil, tears, and sweat are involved." How does one learn to use idioms like a native?
- Ronsenshi 12y ago
  Reading literature, watching films, listening to the music. Basically, delving into culture which contains common phrases, idioms and sayings scattered around. You hear/read them, understand meaning from context, and commit to memory so you can use it later on. This is not really that different from how kids learn idioms too, isn't it? By the way, a lot of idioms/saying are pretty similar in different countries. Their wording might be slightly off, but just by translating it in your mind you understand what it means. Example: "Dark Horse" - One who was previously unknown and is now prominent. In Russian it is pretty much the same thing "Черная Лошадка" or if to translate it to English "Dark Horsey" ("horse" is used with affectionate diminutive suffix). Source: Russian.
  - foobarge 12y ago
    France here - starting as a student and stepping into the university library, it took me 30 seconds to realize that everything interesting was written in English and not being able to proficiently ingurgitate vast amount of it was going to be a problem. I just shunt French as written input for the next 5 years. When the valley called for a job, I was ready. Pasteur said "Chance favors the prepared mind" - he was relating it to the field of observation but it obviously applies almost anywhere. Nowadays, if you have access to the Internet, there's no excuse not to be proficient with English. I've noticed during my travel that youngsters with a bit of education (high school or better) in countries where movies/series aren't translated (because the market is just too small) have very good English level. France has an official language which means that content is vastly translated and this-is-bad(TM) - the we are slower at getting better at English.
    - rjsw 12y ago
      With the change to digital TV in France the original soundtrack is often available too so people can get exposure to English.
rtpg 12y ago
OReilly has released basically all of their books in Japanese
- jeffreyrogers 12y ago
  Japan is a bit of a special case since the Japanese can function well without learning English. In most European countries and increasingly throughout the rest of the world, English is the lingua franca.
foobarge 12y ago
France here - they don't. Relying on translated material is the kiss of death (it's old and will discourage exposure to the bleeding edge, trains will be leaving the station without you for the rest of your career.) I've noticed good forum answers though, mostly sysadmin related questions for Linux systems.
ecaradec 12y ago
I always google in english and this is a huge plus comparing to my coworking looking for answers in french. Even when they find answers, the quantity and the quality is lesser. Hopefully, it doesn't take a lot of english to be able to read programming question on stackoverflow. If you have difficulties reading english and you want to do programming, focusing on just that will help a lot. You don't really need to be able to speak or to listen which are harder (at least for me ).

by yen223 12y ago

This is something I've always wondered - how do programmers who don't natively speak, read, or write English cope with the sheer amount of literature they have to parse to have a career programming?

sanxiyn 12y ago

I don't natively speak, read, or write English. Speaking for myself, you cope by studying English. Blood, toil, tears, and sweat are involved.

yen223 12y ago
For what it's worth, your English is pretty good.
aerovistae 12y ago
...uh...seems to have paid off well for you.
bdcravens 12y ago
Based on the limited sample, you write it better than many "native" speakers.
gone35 12y ago
I don't natively speak, read, or write English. Damn. I wish I could show your comment to people like John Searle.

Tehnix 12y ago

Very easily. But that might be because in Denmark, it's rather the exception than the norm that people don't know english. Of course with varying degrees of proficiency.

rdeboo 12y ago

In my country (Netherlands) people speak English quite well. My entire (CS) master was in English. So that means literature, class, assignments, exams, everything. I must say it did feel kind of awkward sometimes if you sit in a class where every single student and the teacher is native Dutch speaker, and still the course has to be done in English. But I think in the end it is worth it, because you learn all the terminology in English. Actually it is funny, I only realized while reading this discussion that I always google my programming questions in English. It never occurred to me do google them in Dutch. I will try it today to see the results :)

mattmanser 12y ago
Hehe, slight understatement. The Dutch learn English from 8 is it? Being Dutch, I guess you can't really relate to any of the other foreigners in the thread. The Dutch all speak English so well you can move there and never bother learning Dutch. And unlike the French, who will fake not understanding, they seem positively delighted to get a chance to use English. In fact, I've had other English people complain to me that it's often very hard to get them to speak Dutch to you once they know you're English. The only time I've ever heard anyone complain is one night out in Amsterdam where we met up with some Dutch people and one of them said "Oh no, are we speaking English tonight?" Although I'm a bit surprised they'd have entire uni courses in a foreign language, but I guess it makes sense in programming precisely because it's such an advantage.
- psykovsky 12y ago
  I spent 4 years and some in NL(Den Haag) and I never got past the numbers and greetings in Dutch... By speaking English everywhere and with almost everyone made me never try and learn it.

emsy 12y ago

I Germany, most professional literature is translated into German. Most developers I know prefer the English version though.

stevewilhelm 12y ago

OT: > "it's rather the exception than the norm" > "Blood, toil, tears, and sweat are involved." How does one learn to use idioms like a native?

Ronsenshi 12y ago
Reading literature, watching films, listening to the music. Basically, delving into culture which contains common phrases, idioms and sayings scattered around. You hear/read them, understand meaning from context, and commit to memory so you can use it later on. This is not really that different from how kids learn idioms too, isn't it? By the way, a lot of idioms/saying are pretty similar in different countries. Their wording might be slightly off, but just by translating it in your mind you understand what it means. Example: "Dark Horse" - One who was previously unknown and is now prominent. In Russian it is pretty much the same thing "Черная Лошадка" or if to translate it to English "Dark Horsey" ("horse" is used with affectionate diminutive suffix). Source: Russian.
- foobarge 12y ago
  France here - starting as a student and stepping into the university library, it took me 30 seconds to realize that everything interesting was written in English and not being able to proficiently ingurgitate vast amount of it was going to be a problem. I just shunt French as written input for the next 5 years. When the valley called for a job, I was ready. Pasteur said "Chance favors the prepared mind" - he was relating it to the field of observation but it obviously applies almost anywhere. Nowadays, if you have access to the Internet, there's no excuse not to be proficient with English. I've noticed during my travel that youngsters with a bit of education (high school or better) in countries where movies/series aren't translated (because the market is just too small) have very good English level. France has an official language which means that content is vastly translated and this-is-bad(TM) - the we are slower at getting better at English.
  - rjsw 12y ago
    With the change to digital TV in France the original soundtrack is often available too so people can get exposure to English.

rtpg 12y ago

OReilly has released basically all of their books in Japanese

jeffreyrogers 12y ago
Japan is a bit of a special case since the Japanese can function well without learning English. In most European countries and increasingly throughout the rest of the world, English is the lingua franca.

foobarge 12y ago

France here - they don't. Relying on translated material is the kiss of death (it's old and will discourage exposure to the bleeding edge, trains will be leaving the station without you for the rest of your career.) I've noticed good forum answers though, mostly sysadmin related questions for Linux systems.

ecaradec 12y ago

I always google in english and this is a huge plus comparing to my coworking looking for answers in french. Even when they find answers, the quantity and the quality is lesser. Hopefully, it doesn't take a lot of english to be able to read programming question on stackoverflow. If you have difficulties reading english and you want to do programming, focusing on just that will help a lot. You don't really need to be able to speak or to listen which are harder (at least for me ).