3 ms·

> Not to get into a pissing match, but I think "well proven" needs some citation here. It just has to do with the way the body deals with sugar. Sugar produced

> Not to get into a pissing match, but I think "well proven" needs some citation here. It just has to do with the way the body deals with sugar. Sugar produced from the digestive process goes straight to your bloodstream as glucose if your body needs it, but if you already have enough ... it is sent to your liver where it is converted to glycogen. The rub is, your liver can only store so much glycogen (about 100mg of it I think), after that ... any sugar that hits your liver is converted to straight fat.

nkozyra 12y ago
I've heard all of this before and frankly a lot of it seems anecdotal and poorly supported. First, we do know that simple sugars lead to insulin spikes, that's measurable and repeatable. All carbohydrates (save cellulose) are processed into the monosaccharide glucose at some point. And the finite amount of glycogen the liver can store probably also could use some attribution or citation. I haven't heard of that and I'm always very leery about these hard-and-fast #s in terms of measurements that kick off some process that we should expect in all humans.
- iopq 12y ago
  fructose does not lead to an insulin spike and goes directly to the liver
  - nkozyra 12y ago
    Fructose spikes insulin, most macronutrients do. Even protein spikes insulin. Fructose has produced less of a spike than other simple sugars.
    - iopq 12y ago
      It doesn't really spike it, it barely moves it. Its glycemic index is 18, I can't find its insulin index, but it's low. Dietary fat does not have any effect on insulin, btw.
    - spmurrayzzz 12y ago
      Fructose is shunted directly to the liver. It does have a glycemic index of 19, but that's on par with some sugar alcohols (which generally speaking are thought to not have an effect on blood sugar). > Even protein spikes insulin Can you explain this mechanism? From my research, this is a demand-driven process via gluconeogenesis. The effect on blood sugar is so minimal here as to suggest that insulin secretion is nominal at best.
  - logfromblammo 12y ago
    Where it can contribute to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), which is similar to the liver damage seen in alcoholics. If you were thinking of substituting fructose for glucose in your diet, to get a lower insulin response, reconsider.
iopq 12y ago
you're confusing glucose and fructose here you can store 100g of glycogen or even more, depending on how low you are at the moment and how big your muscles are
spmurrayzzz 12y ago
Your liver may only be able to store about 400-600 kCals of glycogen, but your skeletal muscle tissue scan store a great deal more. The catch here is that only those muscle tissues can use that glycogen (and are very resistant to using ketones and/or free fatty acids). This is why nutritional ketosis is driven primarily by hepatic glyocgen depletion. Many cyclical ketogenic diets use this hack to replete glycogen in their muscle tissue (in the form of a once per week carb refeed) in order to fuel glycolytic workouts during the week. While it's hard to completely avoid filling your hepatic glycogen stores during the refeed, they can be burned through pretty quickly by the brain in the course of a day or two provided you restrict dietary carbohydrate to < 20g/day. It's also worth noting that glycogen repletion is generally preferential to muscle tissue first, then the liver second.

nkozyra 12y ago

I've heard all of this before and frankly a lot of it seems anecdotal and poorly supported. First, we do know that simple sugars lead to insulin spikes, that's measurable and repeatable. All carbohydrates (save cellulose) are processed into the monosaccharide glucose at some point. And the finite amount of glycogen the liver can store probably also could use some attribution or citation. I haven't heard of that and I'm always very leery about these hard-and-fast #s in terms of measurements that kick off some process that we should expect in all humans.

iopq 12y ago
fructose does not lead to an insulin spike and goes directly to the liver
- nkozyra 12y ago
  Fructose spikes insulin, most macronutrients do. Even protein spikes insulin. Fructose has produced less of a spike than other simple sugars.
  - iopq 12y ago
    It doesn't really spike it, it barely moves it. Its glycemic index is 18, I can't find its insulin index, but it's low. Dietary fat does not have any effect on insulin, btw.
  - spmurrayzzz 12y ago
    Fructose is shunted directly to the liver. It does have a glycemic index of 19, but that's on par with some sugar alcohols (which generally speaking are thought to not have an effect on blood sugar). > Even protein spikes insulin Can you explain this mechanism? From my research, this is a demand-driven process via gluconeogenesis. The effect on blood sugar is so minimal here as to suggest that insulin secretion is nominal at best.
- logfromblammo 12y ago
  Where it can contribute to non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), which is similar to the liver damage seen in alcoholics. If you were thinking of substituting fructose for glucose in your diet, to get a lower insulin response, reconsider.

iopq 12y ago

you're confusing glucose and fructose here you can store 100g of glycogen or even more, depending on how low you are at the moment and how big your muscles are

spmurrayzzz 12y ago

Your liver may only be able to store about 400-600 kCals of glycogen, but your skeletal muscle tissue scan store a great deal more. The catch here is that only those muscle tissues can use that glycogen (and are very resistant to using ketones and/or free fatty acids). This is why nutritional ketosis is driven primarily by hepatic glyocgen depletion. Many cyclical ketogenic diets use this hack to replete glycogen in their muscle tissue (in the form of a once per week carb refeed) in order to fuel glycolytic workouts during the week. While it's hard to completely avoid filling your hepatic glycogen stores during the refeed, they can be burned through pretty quickly by the brain in the course of a day or two provided you restrict dietary carbohydrate to < 20g/day. It's also worth noting that glycogen repletion is generally preferential to muscle tissue first, then the liver second.