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I've some responses about multiple posts, so rather than comment individually I'm making a general comment. First, I also think it's simple to find "a successf
by PhantomGremlin 12y ago
I've some responses about multiple posts, so rather than comment individually I'm making a general comment.
First, I also think it's simple to find "a successful psychopath". Take the case of one Bernard Lawrence Madoff. Let's look at some criteria from the article:
charm --- yes, clearly charmed people into "investing"
with him, "charmed" his way into being the chairman
of NASDAQ
dishonesty --- yes, c.f. 150 year jail sentence
lack of remorse --- I've never read of any on his part,
have you?
lack of empathy --- yes, otherwise how can you steal
so many people's life savings?
poor forethought --- yes, the scheme was so simplistic,
so harebrained that the SEC ignored warnings, probably
because no rational person would believe it!
Second, as for "examples of psychopaths working together", isn't that pretty much the definition of "organized crime"? Most of their schemes are very simplistic, they certainly lack empathy for their victims, etc.
Finally, I think it's too restrictive to limit the discussion to "rigorous, publishable research". How can you rigorously investigate 99% of these people? That's not possible. E.g. in Madoff's case his pathology was easily identifiable in hindsight, but researchers aren't just wandering around looking for businessmen to study. And certainly most "criminal masterminds" (gotta love that phrase) won't allow themselves to be contemporaneously "researched". Tony Soprano was the fictional counterexample, which is a big reason why that show was so charming.
So "rigorous" research is pretty much limited to dead or uncooperative people. And if that's the case, just how "rigorous" is it? How do you understand Madoff's psyche without his cooperation? And yet he's clearly a psychopath. And clearly successful, seeing as he pulled it off for not years but decades.
- chmike 12y agoMadoff is not what we could call a successful psychopath.
- PhantomGremlin 12y agoI disagree. Here's Wikipedia:[1] federal investigators believe the fraud began as early as the mid-1980s and may have begun as far back as the 1970s ... The amount missing from client accounts, including fabricated gains, was almost $65 billion Bernie could have been conning people for over 30 years, and he was in his 70s when it ended. If that's not "successful", then you must agree that no Ponzi scheme can ever be successful. (Even Social Security will eventually collapse). If I were in Bernie's shoes, I think what would pain me the most is that both of my sons were dead, and that one died as a result of the Ponzi scheme (and was it really suicide?). But then again, if Bernie is really the psychopath I think he is, he might not really care about even his own children. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Madoff
- chmike 12y agoI meant a person with psychopathic traits but who didn't harm (screw) anybody.
- PhantomGremlin 12y agoIn my best Emily Litella voice: "Oh, that's different. Never mind!"