5 ms·

As a father of two - articles like this come off as incredibly pretentious and I have a really hard time even finishing them. I feel like so many in the "start

As a father of two - articles like this come off as incredibly pretentious and I have a really hard time even finishing them. I feel like so many in the "startup" culture are completely trapped in an imaginary bubble that literally means jack shit to anyone outside it. You aren't changing the world out there...you're building business. You are a father and a husband making a conscious adult decision to put work over your family...writing this little "how-to" article does not somehow make you immune to that reality. Venting your elitist self-serving views to the general public does not make you any less irresponsible, much less some sort of "leader". "From 5:30pm-8:30pm, I’m not a startup CEO. I’m a dad." <- That statement right there pretty much illustrates my point. No amount of money will ever replace what you're missing out on at home - I guess you'll have to figure that out on your own though. Hopefully your wife and children will give you back the same 1/8th of their time and focus that you give them.

martinald 12y ago
I agree. That was an incredibly hard thing to read. I'm sure he will end up paying a fortune in therapy and rehab bills for his kids.
- prawn 12y ago
  What a rude and judgemental thing to say. I am in a similar position to the author, only with a small business in place of a startup, and my lifestyle is hardly different. If you have a day job and a young child, you are typically not going to see your child weekdays outside of 7-8am and 6-8pm. This would be a normal situation for almost everyone in a 9-5ish job and with a commute.
tadmilbourn 12y ago
It's interesting that others in the thread have implied that I'm not spending enough time on my startup and will be out-hustled. My wife and I both work. So, we have our kid in daycare. 5:30-8:30 is actually 100% of the time from daycare pickup until she goes to sleep. If she doesn't go to sleep until 9:30, then that means I'm with her until then. On the weekends, I work while she naps or is having one on one time with her mom. My point is that I'm spending as close to 100% of the hours I have with my kid. I grew up in Green Bay, WI (about as non-bubble as you can get) with a dad who worked nights. Once I was in school, I'd see him at dinners only. But he made every soccer game I was in. He had to make choices between his career and his family. And I think he did an excellent job of it. His time with me, though less than my mom's, was always attentive. We have a great relationship. I think he made the right choices for our family. This isn't just a Valley issue...I just happen to be in the Valley. Many parents struggle with how to make the tradeoffs between work and family. My hope in sharing my situation is that others can get another perspective and maybe take away a thing or two to try.
- bmj 12y ago
  This makes sense. There are plenty of people who do not run or work for start-ups that deal with these very same issues, every day. And many of them don't have the choice to leave the office at 5:00 so they can spend that three hours with their kids. I think your rubber/glass ball story is spot-on: assuming we've invested our lives in more than a single thing, we are constantly involved in balancing acts. Part of life is figuring out how many balls you can have in the air at one time. I know personally I would never be able to do what you're trying, and I'm okay with that. Heck, without kids and wife, I don't think I'd be cut out to be a founder. And I'm okay with that.
- jader201 12y ago
  > It's interesting that others in the thread have implied that I'm not spending enough time on my startup and will be out-hustled. I think this is kind of the point though. It seems that running a successful startup rarely allows enough time to spend with our family. In other words: - Good work/life balance - Adequate money for current lifestyle - Running your own business - Sustained success Pick three. If you're saying you've got the first three nailed down, it may be too early to tell if the fourth one will pan out, at which point you have to swap one of the other three in order to sustain the success. Not saying it's impossible, but it seems very uncommon (at least, I've not seen too many examples of it). But maybe this is anecdotal. Curious to hear if others know of examples.
  - patio11 12y ago
    Consider the possibility that your view of the world is very influenced by your social circles and/or media you consume rather than by facts about the world itself. It is, in fact, not the case that businessmen can't have families. Most do. This is equally true in tech as it is in the rest of the economy. (Also, relatedly, being a startup founder isn't nearly the most all-consuming job available. It isn't even the most all-consuming job available in tech. We're curiously macho about this, as if 14 hour workdays are a unique point of startup pride and not a very common characteristic of systems designed to acculturate young men into professions via hazing.)
watty 12y ago
I hate to be "that guy" but this comment is much more pretentious than the blog post. I'm a normal guy with a normal job yet I too can only spend 5:00 PM - 8:00 PM with my daughter (she goes to bed) on the weekdays. I'd love to work 4 hours a day and spend the rest of my time with her but I work hard to provide for my family. What % of families these days doesn't have at least one spouse working 8+ hour days?
- kevinskii 12y ago
  Lots of parents do challenging and impactful work. They too will sometimes have to put work before family. They too will often go home to obnoxious kids after dealing with fires at work all day. They too will compartmentalize because that's what adults do. If you're a startup CEO who raises a family, that doesn't make you unusual. But writing a blog post about it and then submitting it to HN does make you seem a bit pretentious. EDIT: Removed language that unintentionally sounded dismissive towards Tiempo's product.
  - watty 12y ago
    He's offering tips for balancing work/home life, which is a difficult task for many "hackers" and entrepreneurs who have a drive to be successful and important. It's not rocket science, it's not really helpful to me, but what about it is pretentious? I'm assuming if he was a mechanic or secretary it'd no longer be pretentious?
    - kevinskii 12y ago
      Right. If he were a mechanic or secretary it would no longer be pretentious because there wouldn't be the implication that as a startup CEO he's somehow shouldering an ungodly burden.
  - prawn 12y ago
    I don't think it's pretentious. I think it's helpful for anyone in a similar situation -- I too have a kid and another on the way. If it's irrelevant to you, it's clearly marked and easy to ignore.
scobar 12y ago
Most are unable to keep 100% focus on nothing but their families for even 1/2 of each day. Startup founders focus on their families less than many in other professions, but 3 dedicated hours per day is probably relatively close to average (if anyone has empirical evidence, please share). As a father of two, you probably know that even when you're not directly thinking of your family, many decisions you make will be at least partially based on their well-being. So families usually aren't completely neglected in the time that they are not the main focus. My father worked full-time with a one hour commute each way. I'd see him in the mornings, evenings, weekends, and holidays. While I spent less time with him than some of my friends did with their parents, I couldn't have loved, respected, and appreciated him more. In the time he spent with us, his actions showed how much he cared for us. I would argue that more family time with less consideration is worse than better care and demonstration of unconditional love within a smaller period.
- aepearson 12y ago
  You make some really good points there. Also, something I didn't really give the author credit for - is the potential that the time spent with the kids and wife is REAL quality time. Being totally "present" with your family for 2-3 hours can be 100% more than being half-assed for 24 hours a day. (I think that's sort of what you meant when referring to your dad?)
lk145 12y ago
> "From 5:30pm-8:30pm, I’m not a startup CEO. I’m a dad." <- That statement right there pretty much illustrates my point. I don't understand. Most of the non-founder, regular engineers with kids I know don't even get home at 5:30. Sounds like he's doing well for a working dad.
jacquesm 12y ago
> Hopefully your wife and children will give you back the same 1/8th of their time and focus that you give them. Nobody spends 100% of their day with their family, regardless of how perfect they are as husbands, wives and fathers. People sleep, work, eat have friends and so on besides having a family. If you manage to be with your kids 3 hours per day around dinner time and you're doing a start-up at the same time I'd say that's absolutely spectacular compared to most people that are 'just' working jobs.
nsxwolf 12y ago
Wait a minute - 5:30 to 8:30 PM is about as much time as any working parent gets to spend with their kids on a weekday. Little kids go to bed by 8:30 PM!
coffeemug 12y ago
> I feel like so many in the "startup" culture are completely trapped in an imaginary bubble that literally means jack shit to anyone outside it. Trying to be the best in a field is a mindfuck, whether it's art, sports, industry, politics, or anything else. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be a part of that and just living your life. I wish I could will this cursed drive out of me and be content, but I can't. But you know, live and let live. The degree of contempt in your comment is just shameful. > You aren't changing the world out there...you're building business. When you do something that makes a stranger give you an hour of their time, you're changing the world in a very small way. When you do something that makes a billion strangers give you an hour of their time, you're changing the world in a very big way. Many of us won't get to do that, but you can't fault us for giving it an 'ole college try.

martinald 12y ago

I agree. That was an incredibly hard thing to read. I'm sure he will end up paying a fortune in therapy and rehab bills for his kids.

prawn 12y ago
What a rude and judgemental thing to say. I am in a similar position to the author, only with a small business in place of a startup, and my lifestyle is hardly different. If you have a day job and a young child, you are typically not going to see your child weekdays outside of 7-8am and 6-8pm. This would be a normal situation for almost everyone in a 9-5ish job and with a commute.

tadmilbourn 12y ago

It's interesting that others in the thread have implied that I'm not spending enough time on my startup and will be out-hustled. My wife and I both work. So, we have our kid in daycare. 5:30-8:30 is actually 100% of the time from daycare pickup until she goes to sleep. If she doesn't go to sleep until 9:30, then that means I'm with her until then. On the weekends, I work while she naps or is having one on one time with her mom. My point is that I'm spending as close to 100% of the hours I have with my kid. I grew up in Green Bay, WI (about as non-bubble as you can get) with a dad who worked nights. Once I was in school, I'd see him at dinners only. But he made every soccer game I was in. He had to make choices between his career and his family. And I think he did an excellent job of it. His time with me, though less than my mom's, was always attentive. We have a great relationship. I think he made the right choices for our family. This isn't just a Valley issue...I just happen to be in the Valley. Many parents struggle with how to make the tradeoffs between work and family. My hope in sharing my situation is that others can get another perspective and maybe take away a thing or two to try.

bmj 12y ago
This makes sense. There are plenty of people who do not run or work for start-ups that deal with these very same issues, every day. And many of them don't have the choice to leave the office at 5:00 so they can spend that three hours with their kids. I think your rubber/glass ball story is spot-on: assuming we've invested our lives in more than a single thing, we are constantly involved in balancing acts. Part of life is figuring out how many balls you can have in the air at one time. I know personally I would never be able to do what you're trying, and I'm okay with that. Heck, without kids and wife, I don't think I'd be cut out to be a founder. And I'm okay with that.
jader201 12y ago
> It's interesting that others in the thread have implied that I'm not spending enough time on my startup and will be out-hustled. I think this is kind of the point though. It seems that running a successful startup rarely allows enough time to spend with our family. In other words: - Good work/life balance - Adequate money for current lifestyle - Running your own business - Sustained success Pick three. If you're saying you've got the first three nailed down, it may be too early to tell if the fourth one will pan out, at which point you have to swap one of the other three in order to sustain the success. Not saying it's impossible, but it seems very uncommon (at least, I've not seen too many examples of it). But maybe this is anecdotal. Curious to hear if others know of examples.
- patio11 12y ago
  Consider the possibility that your view of the world is very influenced by your social circles and/or media you consume rather than by facts about the world itself. It is, in fact, not the case that businessmen can't have families. Most do. This is equally true in tech as it is in the rest of the economy. (Also, relatedly, being a startup founder isn't nearly the most all-consuming job available. It isn't even the most all-consuming job available in tech. We're curiously macho about this, as if 14 hour workdays are a unique point of startup pride and not a very common characteristic of systems designed to acculturate young men into professions via hazing.)

watty 12y ago

I hate to be "that guy" but this comment is much more pretentious than the blog post. I'm a normal guy with a normal job yet I too can only spend 5:00 PM - 8:00 PM with my daughter (she goes to bed) on the weekdays. I'd love to work 4 hours a day and spend the rest of my time with her but I work hard to provide for my family. What % of families these days doesn't have at least one spouse working 8+ hour days?

kevinskii 12y ago
Lots of parents do challenging and impactful work. They too will sometimes have to put work before family. They too will often go home to obnoxious kids after dealing with fires at work all day. They too will compartmentalize because that's what adults do. If you're a startup CEO who raises a family, that doesn't make you unusual. But writing a blog post about it and then submitting it to HN does make you seem a bit pretentious. EDIT: Removed language that unintentionally sounded dismissive towards Tiempo's product.
- watty 12y ago
  He's offering tips for balancing work/home life, which is a difficult task for many "hackers" and entrepreneurs who have a drive to be successful and important. It's not rocket science, it's not really helpful to me, but what about it is pretentious? I'm assuming if he was a mechanic or secretary it'd no longer be pretentious?
  - kevinskii 12y ago
    Right. If he were a mechanic or secretary it would no longer be pretentious because there wouldn't be the implication that as a startup CEO he's somehow shouldering an ungodly burden.
- prawn 12y ago
  I don't think it's pretentious. I think it's helpful for anyone in a similar situation -- I too have a kid and another on the way. If it's irrelevant to you, it's clearly marked and easy to ignore.

scobar 12y ago

Most are unable to keep 100% focus on nothing but their families for even 1/2 of each day. Startup founders focus on their families less than many in other professions, but 3 dedicated hours per day is probably relatively close to average (if anyone has empirical evidence, please share). As a father of two, you probably know that even when you're not directly thinking of your family, many decisions you make will be at least partially based on their well-being. So families usually aren't completely neglected in the time that they are not the main focus. My father worked full-time with a one hour commute each way. I'd see him in the mornings, evenings, weekends, and holidays. While I spent less time with him than some of my friends did with their parents, I couldn't have loved, respected, and appreciated him more. In the time he spent with us, his actions showed how much he cared for us. I would argue that more family time with less consideration is worse than better care and demonstration of unconditional love within a smaller period.

aepearson 12y ago
You make some really good points there. Also, something I didn't really give the author credit for - is the potential that the time spent with the kids and wife is REAL quality time. Being totally "present" with your family for 2-3 hours can be 100% more than being half-assed for 24 hours a day. (I think that's sort of what you meant when referring to your dad?)

lk145 12y ago

> "From 5:30pm-8:30pm, I’m not a startup CEO. I’m a dad." <- That statement right there pretty much illustrates my point. I don't understand. Most of the non-founder, regular engineers with kids I know don't even get home at 5:30. Sounds like he's doing well for a working dad.

jacquesm 12y ago

> Hopefully your wife and children will give you back the same 1/8th of their time and focus that you give them. Nobody spends 100% of their day with their family, regardless of how perfect they are as husbands, wives and fathers. People sleep, work, eat have friends and so on besides having a family. If you manage to be with your kids 3 hours per day around dinner time and you're doing a start-up at the same time I'd say that's absolutely spectacular compared to most people that are 'just' working jobs.

nsxwolf 12y ago

Wait a minute - 5:30 to 8:30 PM is about as much time as any working parent gets to spend with their kids on a weekday. Little kids go to bed by 8:30 PM!

coffeemug 12y ago

> I feel like so many in the "startup" culture are completely trapped in an imaginary bubble that literally means jack shit to anyone outside it. Trying to be the best in a field is a mindfuck, whether it's art, sports, industry, politics, or anything else. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be a part of that and just living your life. I wish I could will this cursed drive out of me and be content, but I can't. But you know, live and let live. The degree of contempt in your comment is just shameful. > You aren't changing the world out there...you're building business. When you do something that makes a stranger give you an hour of their time, you're changing the world in a very small way. When you do something that makes a billion strangers give you an hour of their time, you're changing the world in a very big way. Many of us won't get to do that, but you can't fault us for giving it an 'ole college try.