4 ms·

Forget about the more exotic rare earths for a minute. Tantalum. Tungsten. We use these in all consumer electronics - Tantalum is a major component of capacit

Forget about the more exotic rare earths for a minute. Tantalum. Tungsten. We use these in all consumer electronics - Tantalum is a major component of capacitors and resistors. Here are a pair of amazingly short lists, which show all of the known, non-war-fuelled, smelters in the world: http://www.conflictfreesourcing.org/tungsten-conflict-free-smelters/ http://www.conflictfreesourcing.org/tungsten-conflict-free-s... http://www.conflictfreesourcing.org/tantalum-conflict-free-smelters/ http://www.conflictfreesourcing.org/tantalum-conflict-free-s...? Yes, there's no national stranglehold, but it's an area of risk that nobody really seems to be aware of - it wouldn't take much to completely disrupt the global materials supply chain for the electronics industry.

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badsock 12y ago
Tantalum capacitors are increasingly rare, and are trivial to substitute. Tantalum resistors I would say are downright exotic. And other than lightbulbs, I've never heard of tungsten used in electronics.
- nickff 12y ago
  Tantalum capacitors are only "trivial to substitute" in some applications; as someone who works in electronic hardware, I can assure you that it is often impossible to use any other part, and achieve the same performance.
  - badsock 12y ago
    Sorry, you're right - tant caps are irreplacable in some applications. I overcorrected on madaxe_again's assertation that tantalum used universally in electronics, when really the number of places that it's used, and couldn't be replaced if supply was cut off, isn't huge. That number certainly isn't zero though.
- tsomctl 12y ago
  TIG welding (Tungsten, Inert Gas) is pretty common. To substitute it, you would have to find another metal with a similar high melting point.
runeks 12y ago
> Yes, there's no national stranglehold, but it's an area of risk that nobody really seems to be aware of - it wouldn't take much to completely disrupt the global materials supply chain for the electronics industry. Sure, it could disrupt the electronics industry, but for how long? Haven't we just learned that even in the cases where we have few current producers of a rare earth, the market can fairly quickly adapt, and new producers appear. After all, that is exactly what the article in question is about. Interestingly, this is partly because the very fear of few producers being a fragile constellation drives the price up, and the higher price entices more companies to starting mining rare earths, because they can make more money from it. What can happen is that the fear of fragility in the supply chain of a certain rare earth, will cause speculators to buy futures contracts for the rare earth in question (because they think the rare earth in question will be worth more in the future, because of supply constriction). This drives up the price of the futures contract. Now other speculators can earn money by buying the rare earth in the spot market while simultaneously selling a futures contract. This arbitrage between the futures and spot market pushes up the price in the spot market and the price in the futures market down. And when the price increase reaches the spot market, existing producers will start producing more and new producers will appear, thus alleviating the original concern: that the supply chain was too fragile.

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badsock 12y ago

Tantalum capacitors are increasingly rare, and are trivial to substitute. Tantalum resistors I would say are downright exotic. And other than lightbulbs, I've never heard of tungsten used in electronics.

nickff 12y ago
Tantalum capacitors are only "trivial to substitute" in some applications; as someone who works in electronic hardware, I can assure you that it is often impossible to use any other part, and achieve the same performance.
- badsock 12y ago
  Sorry, you're right - tant caps are irreplacable in some applications. I overcorrected on madaxe_again's assertation that tantalum used universally in electronics, when really the number of places that it's used, and couldn't be replaced if supply was cut off, isn't huge. That number certainly isn't zero though.
tsomctl 12y ago
TIG welding (Tungsten, Inert Gas) is pretty common. To substitute it, you would have to find another metal with a similar high melting point.

runeks 12y ago

> Yes, there's no national stranglehold, but it's an area of risk that nobody really seems to be aware of - it wouldn't take much to completely disrupt the global materials supply chain for the electronics industry. Sure, it could disrupt the electronics industry, but for how long? Haven't we just learned that even in the cases where we have few current producers of a rare earth, the market can fairly quickly adapt, and new producers appear. After all, that is exactly what the article in question is about. Interestingly, this is partly because the very fear of few producers being a fragile constellation drives the price up, and the higher price entices more companies to starting mining rare earths, because they can make more money from it. What can happen is that the fear of fragility in the supply chain of a certain rare earth, will cause speculators to buy futures contracts for the rare earth in question (because they think the rare earth in question will be worth more in the future, because of supply constriction). This drives up the price of the futures contract. Now other speculators can earn money by buying the rare earth in the spot market while simultaneously selling a futures contract. This arbitrage between the futures and spot market pushes up the price in the spot market and the price in the futures market down. And when the price increase reaches the spot market, existing producers will start producing more and new producers will appear, thus alleviating the original concern: that the supply chain was too fragile.