7 ms·

$99 bucks a year? And developers pay that? Damn... I didn't know. I, for one, won't develop for someone's proprietary platform unless I get free PR for my effor

$99 bucks a year? And developers pay that? Damn... I didn't know. I, for one, won't develop for someone's proprietary platform unless I get free PR for my efforts or have my feet kissed. iPhone programmers have their relationship with a platform vendor completely backwards. But in the end it is Apple who'll pay for this absurd, not them.

blahedo 17y ago
Note that anyone can download libraries for XCode that let you compile and simulate iPhone apps---but you must have their dev kit to actually transfer this over the wire to your iPhone. And the dev kit is $99. There is, supposedly, another way: there is a program by which universities can get free iPhone developer kits for use in classes. Sounds great, right? Don't you believe it. The signup process is poorly conceived and a flaming mass of pain that, after a month and a half of trying, caused me to give up making an iPhone/iPod app be the final project in my HCI class. Good job, Apple!
- davidw 17y ago
  > but you must have their dev kit to actually transfer this over the wire to your iPhone That pretty much sums up the problem, in my opinion. Those things aren't cheap, and if it's mine, I should get to install what I want on it. I can understand weeding things out of their store - that's fine - they want to control the quality. However, if I want to put something on my own device via a usb cable, I ought to be able to.
- ido 17y ago
  > Note that anyone can download libraries for XCode that let you compile and simulate iPhone apps As far as I know you can only develop for the iphone on a mac. Is that true?
  - sireat 17y ago
    I believe, you can do it on a Hackintosh, as well, although the cheapest legal platform is the old Mac Mini.
    - KC8ZKF 17y ago
      Old Intel Mac Mini. PPC Macs won't work.
allenbrunson 17y ago
I really don't think 99 bucks a year is much of a deterrent to anybody who is serious about this. It's a drop in the bucket, compared to all the other stuff you need to do any kind of development at all, really. And according to the comments in jwz's post, there is a one-time fee to get stuff listed in the Pre app store as well.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  "I really don't think 99 bucks a year is much of a deterrent to anybody who is serious about this. " A developer shouldn't need to be "serious" to code a small app and deploy it on his device. By this logic, I couldn't write an app for my Linux laptop without paying Linus & co a "development" fee, or my Windows machine without paying Microsoft, or deploy a J2ME mobile app on my Nokia smart phone without paying Nokia. Apple is just greedy. Soaking developers is sick. Asking annual (vs a one time) fee is pure evil. It will eventually be their downfall.
  - apotheon 17y ago
    > It will eventually be their downfall. We can only hope.
  - GHFigs 17y ago
    You're making the wrong comparison. Compared to things like game consoles and portables, or most phone platforms (e.g. BREW), Apple's deal is quite favorable to the developer.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
    - plinkplonk 17y ago
      "or most phone platforms (e.g. BREW), " So what's the situation with brew? Does one have to pay annual development fees? I've never developed a BREW app so I wouldn't know. I don't know if BREW is particularly widespread either. I do know that I can code and deploy on my Nokia phone and Android phone (ordered, on the way). I used to write and deploy apps on a Windows ME phone(not a great experience but I didn't have to pay any money, least of all annually). I'll be damned if I pay an annual fee to deploy my app on my phone. F$%^ that. Developers paying platform vendors to be "allowed" to develop for a platform is completely backward. Others can make a different choice. Fine by me.
tjogin 17y ago
Basically, that means you won't develop for any proprietary platform.
- plinkplonk 17y ago
  "Basically, that means you won't develop for a proprietary platform." Last I heard, you didn't have to pay Microsoft to write a "ToDo List" app for Win XP (or a Win ME phone).
  - tjogin 17y ago
    You don't, but enrolling in any kind of developer program, or buying any kind of developer software, is going to cost north of $99 a year, which any developer hoping to make even that amount of money will do. The situation for iPhone developers have a lot of well publicized flaws, but the cost of participating in the developer program (which includes development software and publishing in the App Store) is not one of them.
    - bmj 17y ago
      You don't need to enroll in a dev program. You can develop .NET apps with freely available tools if you don't want to spend money on Visual Studio. And jwz isn't trying to make money--he just wants to make his apps available for others to use.
      - tjogin 17y ago
        Considering the prevalence of todo-list and flashlight apps, it doesn't seem like the $99 is holding anybody back.
    - Quarrelsome 17y ago
      I develop .NET I can use notepad and csc for free or I can buy tools from MS that save me time. Halfway house is SharpDevelop which is free but not as good as Visual Studio. I don't mind paying for cool tools but it sucks to have to pay to release software.
JabavuAdams 17y ago
Yeah, it was just truly awful to pay $99 to make $1000 from an app that basically took me a day to develop and a couple of weekends to tune. /sarcasm

blahedo 17y ago

Note that anyone can download libraries for XCode that let you compile and simulate iPhone apps---but you must have their dev kit to actually transfer this over the wire to your iPhone. And the dev kit is $99. There is, supposedly, another way: there is a program by which universities can get free iPhone developer kits for use in classes. Sounds great, right? Don't you believe it. The signup process is poorly conceived and a flaming mass of pain that, after a month and a half of trying, caused me to give up making an iPhone/iPod app be the final project in my HCI class. Good job, Apple!

davidw 17y ago
> but you must have their dev kit to actually transfer this over the wire to your iPhone That pretty much sums up the problem, in my opinion. Those things aren't cheap, and if it's mine, I should get to install what I want on it. I can understand weeding things out of their store - that's fine - they want to control the quality. However, if I want to put something on my own device via a usb cable, I ought to be able to.
ido 17y ago
> Note that anyone can download libraries for XCode that let you compile and simulate iPhone apps As far as I know you can only develop for the iphone on a mac. Is that true?
- sireat 17y ago
  I believe, you can do it on a Hackintosh, as well, although the cheapest legal platform is the old Mac Mini.
  - KC8ZKF 17y ago
    Old Intel Mac Mini. PPC Macs won't work.

allenbrunson 17y ago

I really don't think 99 bucks a year is much of a deterrent to anybody who is serious about this. It's a drop in the bucket, compared to all the other stuff you need to do any kind of development at all, really. And according to the comments in jwz's post, there is a one-time fee to get stuff listed in the Pre app store as well.

plinkplonk 17y ago
"I really don't think 99 bucks a year is much of a deterrent to anybody who is serious about this. " A developer shouldn't need to be "serious" to code a small app and deploy it on his device. By this logic, I couldn't write an app for my Linux laptop without paying Linus & co a "development" fee, or my Windows machine without paying Microsoft, or deploy a J2ME mobile app on my Nokia smart phone without paying Nokia. Apple is just greedy. Soaking developers is sick. Asking annual (vs a one time) fee is pure evil. It will eventually be their downfall.
- apotheon 17y ago
  > It will eventually be their downfall. We can only hope.
- GHFigs 17y ago
  You're making the wrong comparison. Compared to things like game consoles and portables, or most phone platforms (e.g. BREW), Apple's deal is quite favorable to the developer.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - plinkplonk 17y ago
    "or most phone platforms (e.g. BREW), " So what's the situation with brew? Does one have to pay annual development fees? I've never developed a BREW app so I wouldn't know. I don't know if BREW is particularly widespread either. I do know that I can code and deploy on my Nokia phone and Android phone (ordered, on the way). I used to write and deploy apps on a Windows ME phone(not a great experience but I didn't have to pay any money, least of all annually). I'll be damned if I pay an annual fee to deploy my app on my phone. F$%^ that. Developers paying platform vendors to be "allowed" to develop for a platform is completely backward. Others can make a different choice. Fine by me.

tjogin 17y ago

Basically, that means you won't develop for any proprietary platform.

plinkplonk 17y ago
"Basically, that means you won't develop for a proprietary platform." Last I heard, you didn't have to pay Microsoft to write a "ToDo List" app for Win XP (or a Win ME phone).
- tjogin 17y ago
  You don't, but enrolling in any kind of developer program, or buying any kind of developer software, is going to cost north of $99 a year, which any developer hoping to make even that amount of money will do. The situation for iPhone developers have a lot of well publicized flaws, but the cost of participating in the developer program (which includes development software and publishing in the App Store) is not one of them.
  - bmj 17y ago
    You don't need to enroll in a dev program. You can develop .NET apps with freely available tools if you don't want to spend money on Visual Studio. And jwz isn't trying to make money--he just wants to make his apps available for others to use.
    - tjogin 17y ago
      Considering the prevalence of todo-list and flashlight apps, it doesn't seem like the $99 is holding anybody back.
  - Quarrelsome 17y ago
    I develop .NET I can use notepad and csc for free or I can buy tools from MS that save me time. Halfway house is SharpDevelop which is free but not as good as Visual Studio. I don't mind paying for cool tools but it sucks to have to pay to release software.

JabavuAdams 17y ago

Yeah, it was just truly awful to pay $99 to make $1000 from an app that basically took me a day to develop and a couple of weekends to tune. /sarcasm