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I've been curious if there has been examples of psychopaths working together, presumably because it would be more optimal. Also, I'm pretty curious if/how they

by zoba 12y ago

I've been curious if there has been examples of psychopaths working together, presumably because it would be more optimal. Also, I'm pretty curious if/how they can identify each other.

yuna 12y ago
I have struggled (yes, struggled) with psychopathic traits for most of my life. Maybe I can provide some insight. It's hard for psychopaths work together because they don't see the value of people beyond being a means to an end. If you want an example: I would have no mental qualms with killing my friends or family if there were a tangible benefit and no repercussions. Thankfully for everyone, there are repercussions, and there should be. The problem is that a psychopath will screw you over when it's advantageous for them to do so; history, bonds, an even what most people would consider "morality" don't really factor in. Everything is just a reasoned calculation. Two psychopaths working together would require some sort of framework keeping the two from screwing each other over when the opportunity arises. In practice that's really hard to accomplish As for how you can identify a psychopath. If you could readily identify me as a psychopath you see how that would be a problem in my relationships. Nonetheless I'm certain I have brushed up against one or two. Although I liked them as people, we never clicked because were obsessed with our own domains. I appreciated how no-nonsense they were about the world and didn't let emotions affect their judgements, but I also had no interest in their schemes (though I did respect them) when I had my own schemes to worry about. If I ever marry, I don't think it will be with another psychopath.
- kazinator 12y ago
  > I would have no mental qualms with killing my friends What is the definition of "friends" that you're using? Presumably, people who think they are your friends, because they don't know. > Although I liked them as people ... ... you would still have killed them if there were no repercussions, and some tangible benefit. Hmm, what is the working definition of "like" here? Usually when normal people like something, a big element of what that means is wishing for its preservation. Also, how can you say "like them as people" if you don't see the value of people beyond being a means to an end? By this reasoning, your use of "like ... as people" should be synonymous with "like ... as means to and end". In that case why use the term "as people". The ordinary meaning of to "like someone as a person" is quite opposite to seeing them as a means to an end.
  - delluminatus 12y ago
    I think it's important to recognize that the human mind is quite good at maintaining multiple contradictory beliefs. It's certainly possible to "like someone as a person", see them as a means to an end, and still be willing to murder them, even at the same time. Although this kind of compartmentalization might seem illogical -- well, it is illogical -- it's also a powerful coping mechanism.
  - AnimalMuppet 12y ago
    > Usually when normal people like something... Yeah, that's the problem right there. You're thinking "normal", and the GP said he struggled with psychopathy. Your "normal" doesn't apply in his world.
    - lomnakkus 12y ago
      Psychopaths don't "struggle" with psychopathy -- they either a) lack the introspection to realize that they're psychopaths, or b) just don't care. That's part and parcel of being a psychopath. I'll grant the OP "pyschopathic traits", but the rest of his/her post seems to try to support full-blown "psychopathy" rather than just "psychopathic traits". The post might be suggestive of extreme narcissim and/or attention-seeking behavior, but a real diagnosis of psychopathy would require a lot of other traits as well -- and would require an extensive (verifiable) history. See Hare's checklist.
      - chmike 12y ago
        I must disagree. First there are different level of psychopathy making it a fuzzy set. Second I have heard of people diagnosed as psychopaths and indeed struggling to remain socially adequate in order to avoid to be caged in psychiatric hospitals. In this way cold logic is used as leverage to induce socially compatible behaviour.
JanezStupar 12y ago
From the anecdotal data I have read on the topic, at least the smart ones do recognize each other and do not work together for obvious reasons. A sociopath does not feel kinship and AFAIK they view themselves as predators. Another sociopath is more of competition and a potential threat.

by zoba 12y ago

I've been curious if there has been examples of psychopaths working together, presumably because it would be more optimal. Also, I'm pretty curious if/how they can identify each other.

yuna 12y ago

I have struggled (yes, struggled) with psychopathic traits for most of my life. Maybe I can provide some insight. It's hard for psychopaths work together because they don't see the value of people beyond being a means to an end. If you want an example: I would have no mental qualms with killing my friends or family if there were a tangible benefit and no repercussions. Thankfully for everyone, there are repercussions, and there should be. The problem is that a psychopath will screw you over when it's advantageous for them to do so; history, bonds, an even what most people would consider "morality" don't really factor in. Everything is just a reasoned calculation. Two psychopaths working together would require some sort of framework keeping the two from screwing each other over when the opportunity arises. In practice that's really hard to accomplish As for how you can identify a psychopath. If you could readily identify me as a psychopath you see how that would be a problem in my relationships. Nonetheless I'm certain I have brushed up against one or two. Although I liked them as people, we never clicked because were obsessed with our own domains. I appreciated how no-nonsense they were about the world and didn't let emotions affect their judgements, but I also had no interest in their schemes (though I did respect them) when I had my own schemes to worry about. If I ever marry, I don't think it will be with another psychopath.

kazinator 12y ago
> I would have no mental qualms with killing my friends What is the definition of "friends" that you're using? Presumably, people who think they are your friends, because they don't know. > Although I liked them as people ... ... you would still have killed them if there were no repercussions, and some tangible benefit. Hmm, what is the working definition of "like" here? Usually when normal people like something, a big element of what that means is wishing for its preservation. Also, how can you say "like them as people" if you don't see the value of people beyond being a means to an end? By this reasoning, your use of "like ... as people" should be synonymous with "like ... as means to and end". In that case why use the term "as people". The ordinary meaning of to "like someone as a person" is quite opposite to seeing them as a means to an end.
- delluminatus 12y ago
  I think it's important to recognize that the human mind is quite good at maintaining multiple contradictory beliefs. It's certainly possible to "like someone as a person", see them as a means to an end, and still be willing to murder them, even at the same time. Although this kind of compartmentalization might seem illogical -- well, it is illogical -- it's also a powerful coping mechanism.
- AnimalMuppet 12y ago
  > Usually when normal people like something... Yeah, that's the problem right there. You're thinking "normal", and the GP said he struggled with psychopathy. Your "normal" doesn't apply in his world.
  - lomnakkus 12y ago
    Psychopaths don't "struggle" with psychopathy -- they either a) lack the introspection to realize that they're psychopaths, or b) just don't care. That's part and parcel of being a psychopath. I'll grant the OP "pyschopathic traits", but the rest of his/her post seems to try to support full-blown "psychopathy" rather than just "psychopathic traits". The post might be suggestive of extreme narcissim and/or attention-seeking behavior, but a real diagnosis of psychopathy would require a lot of other traits as well -- and would require an extensive (verifiable) history. See Hare's checklist.
    - chmike 12y ago
      I must disagree. First there are different level of psychopathy making it a fuzzy set. Second I have heard of people diagnosed as psychopaths and indeed struggling to remain socially adequate in order to avoid to be caged in psychiatric hospitals. In this way cold logic is used as leverage to induce socially compatible behaviour.

JanezStupar 12y ago

From the anecdotal data I have read on the topic, at least the smart ones do recognize each other and do not work together for obvious reasons. A sociopath does not feel kinship and AFAIK they view themselves as predators. Another sociopath is more of competition and a potential threat.