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Once upon a time I was a programmer, building CRUD apps for enterprises. I hated puzzles, too. Then I discovered quicksort, and graph search, and Bayesian infe

by panarky 12y ago

Once upon a time I was a programmer, building CRUD apps for enterprises. I hated puzzles, too. Then I discovered quicksort, and graph search, and Bayesian inference, and Dijkstra, and Karatsuba. I'm still a programmer, but now I love puzzles, too.

general_failure 12y ago
Algorithms and puzzles are different things. If I asked someone what is an algorithm and they replied 'it's a puzzle where you solve...", I would laugh my ass off.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  Algorithms are not puzzles, they are solutions to puzzles.
  - general_failure 12y ago
    OK, so it would be ok if an interview someone replied "algorithms are solutions to puzzles" ? I don't think they are. They are solutions to problems in computer programming. Solving computer programming problems has nothing to do with your aptitude in solving puzzles and brain teasers.
    - vonmoltke 12y ago
      Algorithms are independent of both puzzles and computer programming. I learned plenty of algorithms in my EE undergrad that were used with a pencil and paper.
    - jakejake 12y ago
      Unfortunately in today's climate it might be realistic to say "algorithms are solutions to interview questions" Although I do believe the more tools you have in your toolbox the better. Knowing algorithms can be incredibly helpful. Same goes for design patterns, language design, etc. It just seems like a fad to drill people with algorithm questions in interviews even if that skill will never be required for the job. I suppose it reveals to a certain degree whether that person has formal CS training or a personal interest in algorithms.
- JabavuAdams 12y ago
  Would you disqualify a candidate based on that one data point? If so, I think you're missing good hires, and not in some false-negative preferred to false-positive way.
rdtsc 12y ago
> Then I discovered quicksort, and graph search, and Bayesian inference, and Dijkstra, and Karatsuba. I would guess most "discovered" those because they had to interview. The % of programmers who need to Karatsuba or Bayesian inference to finish their project is very much smaller than the % of programmers who thought "oh shit, I better learn this because Google and Facebook keep asking about graph theory". It it is perhaps an interesting secondary effect. CS concepts become useful not just because they are useful (and they are) but also because recruiters at many companies think they are. If tomorrow juggling skills somehow become popular during Google interviews. You'd see a lot of juggling programmers out there.
- swartkrans 12y ago
  Actually I think graph theory is pretty important. For example many programming contexts have to deal with dependencies, and often dependencies form a directed acyclic graph. Understanding that will aid in writing better, more reliable code. Path finding is also pretty important, especially if you want to make a game.
  - phazmatis 12y ago
    That's great if you're a game AI programmer (an incredibly small group) or you're creating Yet Another Dependency Loader (hey, I guess <language that becomes super popular next year> will only have 100 frameworks to manage modules, you'd better create your own as well). You know what I really wish? Programmers would spend 1/100th of that algorithm studying on learning to write readable, maintainable code.
    - swartkrans 12y ago
      Your comment comes across as bitter and sarcastic. It doesn't sound like you like being a programmer.
    - computerjunkie 12y ago
      >>>learning to write readable, maintainable code. Which is why I love python. Have you seen some poorly written JavaScript that's poorly indented and has no comments? Until there is a universal guideline for JavaScript and that developers follow, I won't have a go at it again.
crimsonalucard 12y ago
By discovering puzzles you are still a programmer, and you are a better programmer for it. Make no mistake. Yes you don't need to know algorithms to be a programmer, but you are better programmer for knowing the algorithms.
kamaal 12y ago
As long it is >>I'm still a programmer, but now I love puzzles, too. Its perfectly alright. But this generally becomes. I'm still a programmer, but now every one should love puzzles, too.

by panarky 12y ago

general_failure 12y ago

Algorithms and puzzles are different things. If I asked someone what is an algorithm and they replied 'it's a puzzle where you solve...", I would laugh my ass off.

seanflyon 12y ago
Algorithms are not puzzles, they are solutions to puzzles.
- general_failure 12y ago
  OK, so it would be ok if an interview someone replied "algorithms are solutions to puzzles" ? I don't think they are. They are solutions to problems in computer programming. Solving computer programming problems has nothing to do with your aptitude in solving puzzles and brain teasers.
  - vonmoltke 12y ago
    Algorithms are independent of both puzzles and computer programming. I learned plenty of algorithms in my EE undergrad that were used with a pencil and paper.
  - jakejake 12y ago
    Unfortunately in today's climate it might be realistic to say "algorithms are solutions to interview questions" Although I do believe the more tools you have in your toolbox the better. Knowing algorithms can be incredibly helpful. Same goes for design patterns, language design, etc. It just seems like a fad to drill people with algorithm questions in interviews even if that skill will never be required for the job. I suppose it reveals to a certain degree whether that person has formal CS training or a personal interest in algorithms.
JabavuAdams 12y ago
Would you disqualify a candidate based on that one data point? If so, I think you're missing good hires, and not in some false-negative preferred to false-positive way.

rdtsc 12y ago

> Then I discovered quicksort, and graph search, and Bayesian inference, and Dijkstra, and Karatsuba. I would guess most "discovered" those because they had to interview. The % of programmers who need to Karatsuba or Bayesian inference to finish their project is very much smaller than the % of programmers who thought "oh shit, I better learn this because Google and Facebook keep asking about graph theory". It it is perhaps an interesting secondary effect. CS concepts become useful not just because they are useful (and they are) but also because recruiters at many companies think they are. If tomorrow juggling skills somehow become popular during Google interviews. You'd see a lot of juggling programmers out there.

swartkrans 12y ago
Actually I think graph theory is pretty important. For example many programming contexts have to deal with dependencies, and often dependencies form a directed acyclic graph. Understanding that will aid in writing better, more reliable code. Path finding is also pretty important, especially if you want to make a game.
- phazmatis 12y ago
  That's great if you're a game AI programmer (an incredibly small group) or you're creating Yet Another Dependency Loader (hey, I guess <language that becomes super popular next year> will only have 100 frameworks to manage modules, you'd better create your own as well). You know what I really wish? Programmers would spend 1/100th of that algorithm studying on learning to write readable, maintainable code.
  - swartkrans 12y ago
    Your comment comes across as bitter and sarcastic. It doesn't sound like you like being a programmer.
  - computerjunkie 12y ago
    >>>learning to write readable, maintainable code. Which is why I love python. Have you seen some poorly written JavaScript that's poorly indented and has no comments? Until there is a universal guideline for JavaScript and that developers follow, I won't have a go at it again.

crimsonalucard 12y ago

By discovering puzzles you are still a programmer, and you are a better programmer for it. Make no mistake. Yes you don't need to know algorithms to be a programmer, but you are better programmer for knowing the algorithms.

kamaal 12y ago

As long it is >>I'm still a programmer, but now I love puzzles, too. Its perfectly alright. But this generally becomes. I'm still a programmer, but now every one should love puzzles, too.