6 ms·

Hoverboard? Still in the Future

74 points by declan 12y ago

thisjepisje 12y ago
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/technology/hoverboard-still-in-the-future.html?partner=rss&emc=rss http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/technology/hoverboard-stil...
sopooneo 12y ago
You need resistance to sideways motion (lateral friction?) for this to work.
- btbuildem 12y ago
  Yeah, they need to polarize the Lorentz force, then they're good to go.
unwind 12y ago
It was annoying that the article said: But when the 190-pound visitor stood atop the 100-pound board, one gentle push was enough to send him spinning across the room over a cushion of air. This is very poor writing since there is no "cushion of air" involved, the air is not supporting the weight of the board and rider, it's a magnetic system after all. It would probably work almost exactly the same in vacuum.
- cLeEOGPw 12y ago
  Same reporter on railgun: "And then a powerful cushion of air explodes sending the projectile at Mach 7 towards target further than any other long range weapons in use today.
- marknutter 12y ago
  Well, he is technically right. There is air underneath it, and it could be described as a cushion, albeit a poor one. Remember he's trying to explain it in terms that non-technical people will understand.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
eyeareque 12y ago
Having non-skateboarders demonstrate their invention was a poor choice. They seriously lack the balance needed to make this look appealing. I hereby offer my balance, free of charge if you need someone :)
- newppc 12y ago
  Exactly what I was thinking...
- thefreeman 12y ago
  The thing is it operates nothing like a skateboard at this point. While skaters would likely have better balance, the fact that there is no lateral friction or way to control yourself means they probably wouldn't have looked much better. Still a cool prototype though.
  - eyeareque 12y ago
    I'm sure there would be a small learning curve but I am positive I could get used to it. I've done other sports that do not have much lateral friction (on water).
yassim 12y ago
Some interesting rewards in the Kickstarter. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/142464853/hendo-hoverboards-worlds-first-real-hoverboard https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/142464853/hendo-hoverbo... I do like the White box idea. I wonder though at the price where they start and if thats going to eat the profit generated. (I don't know, they could be very cheap to produce at scale.)
mrfusion 12y ago
Does anyone know if the physics checks out? Can producing an eddy current create a repelling force that levitates? Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  Is the same principle as electromagnetic forming that is commonly used in industry - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_forming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_forming
- ridgeguy 12y ago
  Yeah, it's a Lorentz force, an induced current->field that repels the excitation field. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current
- HCIdivision17 12y ago
  I think it has been 'rediscovered' many times, but it's hard to market, since it requires a special platform to run on (even if it's just a sheet-o-metal). Sorta like how you can build a hovercraft out of a leaf blower and some plywood, but generally not used in every day life, despite the coolness. If we could have long, smooth sheets of copper laid out, I'd be pretty thrilled; might need to grab an asteriod to make it cheap enough, though. Also, nice nick; possibly the most apropos I've seen in a while :)
  - cLeEOGPw 12y ago
    Maybe in future children will play with hoverboards ON asteroid made of copper? :D
- DanBC 12y ago
  Drop a strong magnet down a copper tube - it's freaky the first few times you do it. http://youtu.be/keMpUaoA3Tg http://youtu.be/keMpUaoA3Tg Copper is a bit expensive! I'd love to know where to get a bit of pipe like that.
mrfusion 12y ago
I guess this needs to operate over a conductive surface? Would saltwater work?
- ridgeguy 12y ago
  It does, and saltwater isn't conductive enough. The effect degrades the lower the electrical conductivity of the medium in which eddy currents are formed. Pretty much requires something like copper or silver (or gold!) for high enough conductivity to make it work. A superconducting surface works great for this.
  - mrfusion 12y ago
    How about aluminum?
    - FiatLuxDave 12y ago
      It should work, but less well. The conductivity of aluminum is more than half that of copper, so I would expect their 100 lb board which can hold a 190 lb person to be able to hold at least a 100 lb person. The thickness of the metal plate also has some effect, but it is limited, and I would expect that their plate is already thick enough for additional thickness to not matter. I don't think that you can compensate enough for material conductivity with thickness, but I don't have time to research that at the moment.
DontBeADick 12y ago
I thought I just read a few months ago that we'd have superconducting EM drive hoverboards any day now? How disappointing...
snarfy 12y ago
Stick four or five of these on a skateboard: http://www.jetcatusa.com/p60.html http://www.jetcatusa.com/p60.html
subb 12y ago
I don't want an hoverboard. I want an hovercar. Replace roads with a sheet of copper and put grass over it.
- tormeh 12y ago
  I don't think you truly appreciate the price of copper. There are copper thieves, but not asphalt ones.
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    I don't think you truly appreciate the ingenuity of thieves. By the way, I was just passing and wondered if you needed your driveway paving? You see, we have this extra load of asphalt that we didn't need on our last job...
    - tormeh 12y ago
      No, it's just that asphalt isn't worth stealing.
      - lotsofmangos 12y ago
        The driveway scam is generally done with stolen asphalt from roadway construction. I know this from a professional con artist who has had a long career in this kind of shenanigans.
        tormeh 12y ago
        Yeah, that lowers cost considerably. Copper is attractive even when it needs to be cut out of signal cables. The Norwegian railroad authority is switching to aluminum cables in certain parts of the country to avoid it.
      - DanBC 12y ago
        Perhaps it's a cultural thing? In England there is a scam where builders go door to door offering to fix your driveway. Part of the scam is offering to do it cheap because they have some left over asphalt from a large job and it needs to be used quick. They then do a terrible job with the stolen asphalt, but cosmetically it looks okay so the householder pays and the crooks leave.
smlacy 12y ago
Someone forgot Newton's 1st Law of Motion, and it's evident in all these videos. In other words: It's impossible to steer a device like this .
- wes-exp 12y ago
  Nonsense. It could be steered (well, maybe rotated) with flywheels :)
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  If it is impossible to steer a device like this, explain the whitebox+ with directional control from your smartphone that they are offering. The thing works on repulsive eddy forces that always oppose the field you create. If you angle the field, you should get lateral forces. edit - thinking about it, you do not have to angle the field, you just need to move it. Also, if you move the device it should automatically resist the motion due to the currents created. With some accelerometers feeding back into controlling the motion of the field, it should be even be possible to give the device what feel like edges to make it behave like a snowboard.
marknutter 12y ago
I don't really get why a hoverboard would be better than a regular skateboard anyways. It's a solution looking for a problem.
- chaghalibaghali 12y ago
  The ground's surface wouldn't matter - skateboards are generally limited to (or at least work best on) flat, smooth surfaces.
- Pxtl 12y ago
  Because hoverboard. That's really the beginning and the end of it. It's not supposed to be better at anything. It's a hoverboard.
- ljk 12y ago
  it get get around this: http://www.skatestoppers.com/Images-Photopage/install09.jpg http://www.skatestoppers.com/Images-Photopage/install09.jpg :p
chton 12y ago
Now that their kickstarter is up, people are already streaming in to back it. I bet most of them will completely gloss over this gem of a sentence: "Currently, this surface needs to be a non-ferromagnetic conductor." While it does have some applications even with that limitation, it's far from a practical hoverboard, and it's very misleading to be talking about other uses of the technology as if it already exists. They seem to be getting ahead of themselves by extolling their "design focus" when they don't have the product people expect from them yet, and possibly (probably) never will.
pseudometa 12y ago
The Verge has a better video on the device: http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/21/7025795/riding-hendos-hoverboard-levitation http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/21/7025795/riding-hendos-hov...
mrfusion 12y ago
Does anyone know how built in batteries can provide enough power to support a 190 lb person?

74 points by declan 12y ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/technology/hoverboard-still-in-the-future.html?partner=rss&emc=rss http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/technology/hoverboard-stil...

sopooneo 12y ago

You need resistance to sideways motion (lateral friction?) for this to work.

btbuildem 12y ago
Yeah, they need to polarize the Lorentz force, then they're good to go.

unwind 12y ago

It was annoying that the article said: But when the 190-pound visitor stood atop the 100-pound board, one gentle push was enough to send him spinning across the room over a cushion of air. This is very poor writing since there is no "cushion of air" involved, the air is not supporting the weight of the board and rider, it's a magnetic system after all. It would probably work almost exactly the same in vacuum.

cLeEOGPw 12y ago
Same reporter on railgun: "And then a powerful cushion of air explodes sending the projectile at Mach 7 towards target further than any other long range weapons in use today.
marknutter 12y ago
Well, he is technically right. There is air underneath it, and it could be described as a cushion, albeit a poor one. Remember he's trying to explain it in terms that non-technical people will understand.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

eyeareque 12y ago

Having non-skateboarders demonstrate their invention was a poor choice. They seriously lack the balance needed to make this look appealing. I hereby offer my balance, free of charge if you need someone :)

newppc 12y ago
Exactly what I was thinking...
thefreeman 12y ago
The thing is it operates nothing like a skateboard at this point. While skaters would likely have better balance, the fact that there is no lateral friction or way to control yourself means they probably wouldn't have looked much better. Still a cool prototype though.
- eyeareque 12y ago
  I'm sure there would be a small learning curve but I am positive I could get used to it. I've done other sports that do not have much lateral friction (on water).

yassim 12y ago

Some interesting rewards in the Kickstarter. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/142464853/hendo-hoverboards-worlds-first-real-hoverboard https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/142464853/hendo-hoverbo... I do like the White box idea. I wonder though at the price where they start and if thats going to eat the profit generated. (I don't know, they could be very cheap to produce at scale.)

mrfusion 12y ago

Does anyone know if the physics checks out? Can producing an eddy current create a repelling force that levitates? Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?

lotsofmangos 12y ago
Is the same principle as electromagnetic forming that is commonly used in industry - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_forming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_forming
ridgeguy 12y ago
Yeah, it's a Lorentz force, an induced current->field that repels the excitation field. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current
HCIdivision17 12y ago
I think it has been 'rediscovered' many times, but it's hard to market, since it requires a special platform to run on (even if it's just a sheet-o-metal). Sorta like how you can build a hovercraft out of a leaf blower and some plywood, but generally not used in every day life, despite the coolness. If we could have long, smooth sheets of copper laid out, I'd be pretty thrilled; might need to grab an asteriod to make it cheap enough, though. Also, nice nick; possibly the most apropos I've seen in a while :)
- cLeEOGPw 12y ago
  Maybe in future children will play with hoverboards ON asteroid made of copper? :D
DanBC 12y ago
Drop a strong magnet down a copper tube - it's freaky the first few times you do it. http://youtu.be/keMpUaoA3Tg http://youtu.be/keMpUaoA3Tg Copper is a bit expensive! I'd love to know where to get a bit of pipe like that.

mrfusion 12y ago

I guess this needs to operate over a conductive surface? Would saltwater work?

ridgeguy 12y ago
It does, and saltwater isn't conductive enough. The effect degrades the lower the electrical conductivity of the medium in which eddy currents are formed. Pretty much requires something like copper or silver (or gold!) for high enough conductivity to make it work. A superconducting surface works great for this.
- mrfusion 12y ago
  How about aluminum?
  - FiatLuxDave 12y ago
    It should work, but less well. The conductivity of aluminum is more than half that of copper, so I would expect their 100 lb board which can hold a 190 lb person to be able to hold at least a 100 lb person. The thickness of the metal plate also has some effect, but it is limited, and I would expect that their plate is already thick enough for additional thickness to not matter. I don't think that you can compensate enough for material conductivity with thickness, but I don't have time to research that at the moment.

DontBeADick 12y ago

I thought I just read a few months ago that we'd have superconducting EM drive hoverboards any day now? How disappointing...

snarfy 12y ago

Stick four or five of these on a skateboard: http://www.jetcatusa.com/p60.html http://www.jetcatusa.com/p60.html

subb 12y ago

I don't want an hoverboard. I want an hovercar. Replace roads with a sheet of copper and put grass over it.

tormeh 12y ago
I don't think you truly appreciate the price of copper. There are copper thieves, but not asphalt ones.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  I don't think you truly appreciate the ingenuity of thieves. By the way, I was just passing and wondered if you needed your driveway paving? You see, we have this extra load of asphalt that we didn't need on our last job...
  - tormeh 12y ago
    No, it's just that asphalt isn't worth stealing.
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      The driveway scam is generally done with stolen asphalt from roadway construction. I know this from a professional con artist who has had a long career in this kind of shenanigans.
      - tormeh 12y ago
        Yeah, that lowers cost considerably. Copper is attractive even when it needs to be cut out of signal cables. The Norwegian railroad authority is switching to aluminum cables in certain parts of the country to avoid it.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      Perhaps it's a cultural thing? In England there is a scam where builders go door to door offering to fix your driveway. Part of the scam is offering to do it cheap because they have some left over asphalt from a large job and it needs to be used quick. They then do a terrible job with the stolen asphalt, but cosmetically it looks okay so the householder pays and the crooks leave.

smlacy 12y ago

Someone forgot Newton's 1st Law of Motion, and it's evident in all these videos. In other words: It's impossible to steer a device like this .

wes-exp 12y ago
Nonsense. It could be steered (well, maybe rotated) with flywheels :)
lotsofmangos 12y ago
If it is impossible to steer a device like this, explain the whitebox+ with directional control from your smartphone that they are offering. The thing works on repulsive eddy forces that always oppose the field you create. If you angle the field, you should get lateral forces. edit - thinking about it, you do not have to angle the field, you just need to move it. Also, if you move the device it should automatically resist the motion due to the currents created. With some accelerometers feeding back into controlling the motion of the field, it should be even be possible to give the device what feel like edges to make it behave like a snowboard.

marknutter 12y ago

I don't really get why a hoverboard would be better than a regular skateboard anyways. It's a solution looking for a problem.

chaghalibaghali 12y ago
The ground's surface wouldn't matter - skateboards are generally limited to (or at least work best on) flat, smooth surfaces.
Pxtl 12y ago
Because hoverboard. That's really the beginning and the end of it. It's not supposed to be better at anything. It's a hoverboard.
ljk 12y ago
it get get around this: http://www.skatestoppers.com/Images-Photopage/install09.jpg http://www.skatestoppers.com/Images-Photopage/install09.jpg :p

chton 12y ago

Now that their kickstarter is up, people are already streaming in to back it. I bet most of them will completely gloss over this gem of a sentence: "Currently, this surface needs to be a non-ferromagnetic conductor." While it does have some applications even with that limitation, it's far from a practical hoverboard, and it's very misleading to be talking about other uses of the technology as if it already exists. They seem to be getting ahead of themselves by extolling their "design focus" when they don't have the product people expect from them yet, and possibly (probably) never will.

pseudometa 12y ago

The Verge has a better video on the device: http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/21/7025795/riding-hendos-hoverboard-levitation http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/21/7025795/riding-hendos-hov...

mrfusion 12y ago

Does anyone know how built in batteries can provide enough power to support a 190 lb person?