4 ms·

While I admit the government is trying to censor (or was, I've yet to see any evidence of this from the current government) certain politically critical article

by chunky1994 12y ago

While I admit the government is trying to censor (or was, I've yet to see any evidence of this from the current government) certain politically critical articles etc. and I am unaware of the true extent of the CMS, the part about the UID program seems rather sensationalist and fear-mongering, since the primary aim of the UID program is the ability to identify the citizens of India similar to the US social security number system. The reason we need this biomertic data would be to ascertain the identity of over a billion people where unique names, places of birth and the existence of birth certificates aren't the norm, not in order to constantly police the populace. If you could make more explicit the problems with gathering biometric data of citizens, (which shouldn't be used for security purposes anyway) then I'm sure I would get a better understanding of your position.

higherpurpose 12y ago
Surely there are better ways to identify someone than get their fingerprint, especally if they bothererd to called everyone to the police headquarters to get their fingerprint.
- jacalata 12y ago
  Like what? Bear in mind that the country has a 75% literacy rate.
- anuragbiyani 12y ago
  > "especally if they bothererd to called everyone to the police headquarters to get their fingerprint." What !? This statement has NO factual basis, and is completely incorrect. (PS: I have a Aadhaar card (aka UID) myself).
- _nedR 12y ago
  Its not just fingerprint (all 10 finger impressions actually) but also retinal scans. And the govt. is gradually making it mandatory for everything from getting 50% subsidies on cooking gas to opening a bank account. It is probably the most ambitious and encompassing citizen database in the world. And there is practically zero debate on the issues: 1. Is the govt. capable and competent enough to keep the data safe from external and internal threats ( If I had to put money, I would say all or part of the data has already made its way to at least one foreign govt.) 2. Are there enough safeguards in place to prevent this data from being misused? In a country with widespread and endemic corruption and where there have been incidents of govt. indifference or even collusion in events that cost thousands of lives and/or billions of dollars; Can the govt. be trusted with this data at all? 3. Is such a system (whose capabilities and scope far exceed those of most if not all first-world countries) really a priority in a country with grinding poverty, societal issues, illiteracy, inadequate healthcare, poor sanitation, corruption, decrepit infrastructure. Right now, the Indian masses are probably not educated enough on the issues to have this debate and the govt. is using this fact to try and deploy it as fast as possible.
  - lucaspiller 12y ago
    The system in the UAE is similar, but if anything more encompassing. You need a government issued ID card for pretty much everything: renting an apartment, opening a bank account, getting a SIM card (unless you are a tourist in which case you just need a passport), renting a car. Since 2005 to get this you need a medical blood and X-ray test (to ensure you don't have HIV or TB - I wouldn't be surprised if DNA was analysed too), prints of all 10 and the sides of your hands and retinal scans. Last year the relevant authoring announced it had biometrics for 118 million people [0], which considering the population is just under 10 million isn't bad (there is a high turnover in expat workers). The ID cards are actually quite advanced, they contain the biometrics and PKI. Pretty much everyone (even government authorities) still use signatures and photocopies of the cards for verification though... [0] http://www.id.gov.ae/en/media-centre/news/2013/7/9/emirates-id-possesses-118-million-civil-biometrics.aspx http://www.id.gov.ae/en/media-centre/news/2013/7/9/emirates-...
    - _nedR 12y ago
      Wow, that is interesting and disturbing. India is not quite there yet.. But I would put it down to bureaucratic inertia rather than lack of intention.
  - enlightenedfool 12y ago
    Good points. It's not unreasonable to assume the problems you mentioned are reality. It would take a couple of generations for people to even start to notice the harm that has been done

higherpurpose 12y ago

Surely there are better ways to identify someone than get their fingerprint, especally if they bothererd to called everyone to the police headquarters to get their fingerprint.

jacalata 12y ago
Like what? Bear in mind that the country has a 75% literacy rate.
anuragbiyani 12y ago
> "especally if they bothererd to called everyone to the police headquarters to get their fingerprint." What !? This statement has NO factual basis, and is completely incorrect. (PS: I have a Aadhaar card (aka UID) myself).
_nedR 12y ago
Its not just fingerprint (all 10 finger impressions actually) but also retinal scans. And the govt. is gradually making it mandatory for everything from getting 50% subsidies on cooking gas to opening a bank account. It is probably the most ambitious and encompassing citizen database in the world. And there is practically zero debate on the issues: 1. Is the govt. capable and competent enough to keep the data safe from external and internal threats ( If I had to put money, I would say all or part of the data has already made its way to at least one foreign govt.) 2. Are there enough safeguards in place to prevent this data from being misused? In a country with widespread and endemic corruption and where there have been incidents of govt. indifference or even collusion in events that cost thousands of lives and/or billions of dollars; Can the govt. be trusted with this data at all? 3. Is such a system (whose capabilities and scope far exceed those of most if not all first-world countries) really a priority in a country with grinding poverty, societal issues, illiteracy, inadequate healthcare, poor sanitation, corruption, decrepit infrastructure. Right now, the Indian masses are probably not educated enough on the issues to have this debate and the govt. is using this fact to try and deploy it as fast as possible.
- lucaspiller 12y ago
  The system in the UAE is similar, but if anything more encompassing. You need a government issued ID card for pretty much everything: renting an apartment, opening a bank account, getting a SIM card (unless you are a tourist in which case you just need a passport), renting a car. Since 2005 to get this you need a medical blood and X-ray test (to ensure you don't have HIV or TB - I wouldn't be surprised if DNA was analysed too), prints of all 10 and the sides of your hands and retinal scans. Last year the relevant authoring announced it had biometrics for 118 million people [0], which considering the population is just under 10 million isn't bad (there is a high turnover in expat workers). The ID cards are actually quite advanced, they contain the biometrics and PKI. Pretty much everyone (even government authorities) still use signatures and photocopies of the cards for verification though... [0] http://www.id.gov.ae/en/media-centre/news/2013/7/9/emirates-id-possesses-118-million-civil-biometrics.aspx http://www.id.gov.ae/en/media-centre/news/2013/7/9/emirates-...
  - _nedR 12y ago
    Wow, that is interesting and disturbing. India is not quite there yet.. But I would put it down to bureaucratic inertia rather than lack of intention.
- enlightenedfool 12y ago
  Good points. It's not unreasonable to assume the problems you mentioned are reality. It would take a couple of generations for people to even start to notice the harm that has been done