7 ms·

Worse yet, Indian government is apparently trying hard to emulate NSA's Surveillance Programs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A91idibgT0&feature=youtu.be http

Worse yet, Indian government is apparently trying hard to emulate NSA's Surveillance Programs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A91idibgT0&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A91idibgT0&feature=youtu.be Here's the video's info: """India is currently implementing some of the scariest surveillance schemes in the world. This lecture will shed light on India's surveillance industry, its UID scheme which aims at the collection of all biometric data and on various controversial surveillance schemes, such as the Central Monitoring System (CMS). When it comes to surveillance, the most mainstream argument is that the majority of India's population lives below the poverty line and that surveillance is an elitist issue - and not a "real" issue which affects the masses. Given that the majority of India's population has mobile phones and that the Indian government is currently implementing the Central Monitoring System (CMS) which aims at intercepting all telecommunications (and Internet communications), surveillance does not appear to be an elitist issue. Given that the UID scheme aims at collecting the biometric data of all citizens residing in India and that most BPL cash programmes require UID registration, surveillance appears to be an issue which (unfortunately) affects the 1.2 billion people currently living in India. And this is to say the least. As part of the Privacy Project, the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS) in Bangalore, India, is investigating surveillance within the country. The project is funded by Privacy International and aims to map out various forms of surveillance in India, ranging from drones, CCTV cameras and GPS tracking equipment to phone and Internet monitoring gear. This lecture aims to present the research that Maria Xynou has undertaken at the CIS so far, which includes data on the various surveillance technology companies operating in India and the type of spy gear they sell to Indian law enforcement agencies. This research also includes the presentation of India's various controversial surveillance schemes, with an emphasis on the Central Monitoring System (CMS) which unlawfully enables the interception of all telecommunications and Internet communications. India is currently implementing the world's largest biometric data collection and interception of communications schemes. The aim of this lecture is to present India's scary mass surveillance and to discuss its implications on the right to privacy and other human rights."""

chunky1994 12y ago
While I admit the government is trying to censor (or was, I've yet to see any evidence of this from the current government) certain politically critical articles etc. and I am unaware of the true extent of the CMS, the part about the UID program seems rather sensationalist and fear-mongering, since the primary aim of the UID program is the ability to identify the citizens of India similar to the US social security number system. The reason we need this biomertic data would be to ascertain the identity of over a billion people where unique names, places of birth and the existence of birth certificates aren't the norm, not in order to constantly police the populace. If you could make more explicit the problems with gathering biometric data of citizens, (which shouldn't be used for security purposes anyway) then I'm sure I would get a better understanding of your position.
- higherpurpose 12y ago
  Surely there are better ways to identify someone than get their fingerprint, especally if they bothererd to called everyone to the police headquarters to get their fingerprint.
  - jacalata 12y ago
    Like what? Bear in mind that the country has a 75% literacy rate.
  - anuragbiyani 12y ago
    > "especally if they bothererd to called everyone to the police headquarters to get their fingerprint." What !? This statement has NO factual basis, and is completely incorrect. (PS: I have a Aadhaar card (aka UID) myself).
  - _nedR 12y ago
    Its not just fingerprint (all 10 finger impressions actually) but also retinal scans. And the govt. is gradually making it mandatory for everything from getting 50% subsidies on cooking gas to opening a bank account. It is probably the most ambitious and encompassing citizen database in the world. And there is practically zero debate on the issues: 1. Is the govt. capable and competent enough to keep the data safe from external and internal threats ( If I had to put money, I would say all or part of the data has already made its way to at least one foreign govt.) 2. Are there enough safeguards in place to prevent this data from being misused? In a country with widespread and endemic corruption and where there have been incidents of govt. indifference or even collusion in events that cost thousands of lives and/or billions of dollars; Can the govt. be trusted with this data at all? 3. Is such a system (whose capabilities and scope far exceed those of most if not all first-world countries) really a priority in a country with grinding poverty, societal issues, illiteracy, inadequate healthcare, poor sanitation, corruption, decrepit infrastructure. Right now, the Indian masses are probably not educated enough on the issues to have this debate and the govt. is using this fact to try and deploy it as fast as possible.
virtuabhi 12y ago
This is the first time I have seen UID scheme being mentioned as a surveillance tool. The aim of the scheme is to replace the outdated mechanisms - signature, name and address papers which can easily be forged. Why poor people are encouraged to register under the UID scheme? So that the benefits provided by India's socialist governments (central and state) can reach them without any corruption or delay. The fear of it being misused is currently unjustified and without any proof. Secondly, I think most people over-estimate the Indian government's technical ability. We are nowhere near US or China in mass surveillance. No Indian agency has the expertise anywhere near NSA or PLA Unit 61398. And unlike in China where there are many popular local tech companies, Indians use products of American companies (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.). So the government can neither ask the companies for data (like US) nor get the companies to actively participate in any form of censorship (like China). As long as the US companies follow basic security practices (HTTPS, SSL, 2-step verification, etc..) and don't sell out, we should be fine on the internet. (Disclaimer: Indian citizen)
- monsterix 12y ago
  > The fear of it being misused is currently unjustified and without any proof. http://www.rediff.com/news/report/uidai-gets-first-complaint-of-misuse-of-personal-data/20111002.htm http://www.rediff.com/news/report/uidai-gets-first-complaint... http://kractivist.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/india-your-aadhaar-data-is-being-misused-by-banks-mustshare-privacy-uid/ http://kractivist.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/india-your-aadhaa... http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/aadhar-scheme-how-safe-and-secure-is-your-identity/1/313616.html http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/aadhar-scheme-how-safe-an... I know at least 22 cases that have been suppressed so far. You can safely assume the number to be much higher, misunderstood and often under-reported. Dig deep and you'll find a lot of unreported reality!
  - pessimizer 12y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propiska_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propiska_in_the_Soviet_Union
- virtuabhi 12y ago
bipin-nag 12y ago
Do you even know the context of the speech !! It is from Chaos Communication Congress, a hacker meeting. From wiki: The Chaos Communication Congress is an annual meeting of the international hacker scene, organized by the Chaos Computer Club. The congress features a variety of lectures and workshops on technical and political issues. If a hacker community does lecture on political issue, it is not exactly discussing morality of free expression. They are discussing ways in which you can get busted by the police. They are simply paranoid of conviction. I can't downvote this comment but someone who can please do so.
- mkal_tsr 12y ago
  Why should it be downvoted?
  - bipin-nag 12y ago
    See my above reply https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8486513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8486513. I would reiterate that the parent was just sensational, and it is a far cry from the surveillance done by U.S.
    - kragen 12y ago
      May I suggest that you stop using the internet until you learn to respect and appreciate the hackers who built it? You should be ashamed of your ignorance. You are launching vicious attacks on hackers, claiming we aren't human-rights activists, that we are criminals, that we are selfish, and that we aren't known for our humanitarian efforts. None of these things are true.
- nhaehnle 12y ago
  Are you sure you properly understand what "hacker" means in this context? I think it's fair to say that some people in the grey to black spectrum also attend the CCC, but overall, yes, people there are genuinely committed to free expression (by everybody, most importantly of course by innocent people). They are using the word "hacker" in the original sense of the word (tinkering with technology etc.) What you're saying is like the false claim that Tor is only used by criminals - when in reality, it is used by all sorts of people, including law enforcement themselves!

chunky1994 12y ago

While I admit the government is trying to censor (or was, I've yet to see any evidence of this from the current government) certain politically critical articles etc. and I am unaware of the true extent of the CMS, the part about the UID program seems rather sensationalist and fear-mongering, since the primary aim of the UID program is the ability to identify the citizens of India similar to the US social security number system. The reason we need this biomertic data would be to ascertain the identity of over a billion people where unique names, places of birth and the existence of birth certificates aren't the norm, not in order to constantly police the populace. If you could make more explicit the problems with gathering biometric data of citizens, (which shouldn't be used for security purposes anyway) then I'm sure I would get a better understanding of your position.

higherpurpose 12y ago
Surely there are better ways to identify someone than get their fingerprint, especally if they bothererd to called everyone to the police headquarters to get their fingerprint.
- jacalata 12y ago
  Like what? Bear in mind that the country has a 75% literacy rate.
- anuragbiyani 12y ago
  > "especally if they bothererd to called everyone to the police headquarters to get their fingerprint." What !? This statement has NO factual basis, and is completely incorrect. (PS: I have a Aadhaar card (aka UID) myself).
- _nedR 12y ago
  Its not just fingerprint (all 10 finger impressions actually) but also retinal scans. And the govt. is gradually making it mandatory for everything from getting 50% subsidies on cooking gas to opening a bank account. It is probably the most ambitious and encompassing citizen database in the world. And there is practically zero debate on the issues: 1. Is the govt. capable and competent enough to keep the data safe from external and internal threats ( If I had to put money, I would say all or part of the data has already made its way to at least one foreign govt.) 2. Are there enough safeguards in place to prevent this data from being misused? In a country with widespread and endemic corruption and where there have been incidents of govt. indifference or even collusion in events that cost thousands of lives and/or billions of dollars; Can the govt. be trusted with this data at all? 3. Is such a system (whose capabilities and scope far exceed those of most if not all first-world countries) really a priority in a country with grinding poverty, societal issues, illiteracy, inadequate healthcare, poor sanitation, corruption, decrepit infrastructure. Right now, the Indian masses are probably not educated enough on the issues to have this debate and the govt. is using this fact to try and deploy it as fast as possible.

virtuabhi 12y ago

This is the first time I have seen UID scheme being mentioned as a surveillance tool. The aim of the scheme is to replace the outdated mechanisms - signature, name and address papers which can easily be forged. Why poor people are encouraged to register under the UID scheme? So that the benefits provided by India's socialist governments (central and state) can reach them without any corruption or delay. The fear of it being misused is currently unjustified and without any proof. Secondly, I think most people over-estimate the Indian government's technical ability. We are nowhere near US or China in mass surveillance. No Indian agency has the expertise anywhere near NSA or PLA Unit 61398. And unlike in China where there are many popular local tech companies, Indians use products of American companies (Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.). So the government can neither ask the companies for data (like US) nor get the companies to actively participate in any form of censorship (like China). As long as the US companies follow basic security practices (HTTPS, SSL, 2-step verification, etc..) and don't sell out, we should be fine on the internet. (Disclaimer: Indian citizen)

monsterix 12y ago
> The fear of it being misused is currently unjustified and without any proof. http://www.rediff.com/news/report/uidai-gets-first-complaint-of-misuse-of-personal-data/20111002.htm http://www.rediff.com/news/report/uidai-gets-first-complaint... http://kractivist.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/india-your-aadhaar-data-is-being-misused-by-banks-mustshare-privacy-uid/ http://kractivist.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/india-your-aadhaa... http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/aadhar-scheme-how-safe-and-secure-is-your-identity/1/313616.html http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/aadhar-scheme-how-safe-an... I know at least 22 cases that have been suppressed so far. You can safely assume the number to be much higher, misunderstood and often under-reported. Dig deep and you'll find a lot of unreported reality!
- pessimizer 12y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propiska_in_the_Soviet_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propiska_in_the_Soviet_Union
virtuabhi 12y ago

bipin-nag 12y ago

Do you even know the context of the speech !! It is from Chaos Communication Congress, a hacker meeting. From wiki: The Chaos Communication Congress is an annual meeting of the international hacker scene, organized by the Chaos Computer Club. The congress features a variety of lectures and workshops on technical and political issues. If a hacker community does lecture on political issue, it is not exactly discussing morality of free expression. They are discussing ways in which you can get busted by the police. They are simply paranoid of conviction. I can't downvote this comment but someone who can please do so.

mkal_tsr 12y ago
Why should it be downvoted?
- bipin-nag 12y ago
  See my above reply https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8486513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8486513. I would reiterate that the parent was just sensational, and it is a far cry from the surveillance done by U.S.
  - kragen 12y ago
    May I suggest that you stop using the internet until you learn to respect and appreciate the hackers who built it? You should be ashamed of your ignorance. You are launching vicious attacks on hackers, claiming we aren't human-rights activists, that we are criminals, that we are selfish, and that we aren't known for our humanitarian efforts. None of these things are true.
nhaehnle 12y ago
Are you sure you properly understand what "hacker" means in this context? I think it's fair to say that some people in the grey to black spectrum also attend the CCC, but overall, yes, people there are genuinely committed to free expression (by everybody, most importantly of course by innocent people). They are using the word "hacker" in the original sense of the word (tinkering with technology etc.) What you're saying is like the false claim that Tor is only used by criminals - when in reality, it is used by all sorts of people, including law enforcement themselves!