4 ms·

EVERYONE who suffers from RSI should read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 I read it about a ye

by flente 12y ago

EVERYONE who suffers from RSI should read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1269951 I read it about a year ago, and it was probably the single most important article I've read in my entire life. Some background: I've been using computers since I was a little kid. Used to play videos games a whole ton. Around the age of 15, I started having severe RSI-related pain in my hands. Even after I stopped gaming, I could never get away from the keyboard and mouse, because I was a technology professional. Fast forward 15 years. I'd been dealing with constant pain every day for as long as I could remember. My hands hurt even when I wasn't typing. It was bad enough that I was considering changing my line of work. I'd tried every type of medical remedy under the sun. I'd seen (many) doctors, physical therapists, chiropractors, acupuncturists, etc., but I couldn't find any sort of treatment that provided anything but temporary pain relief. Through some stroke of incredible luck, I stumbled across this article randomly while looking for something else. I read it and found Aaron's experience closely mirrored mine in a lot of ways. I immediately bought the book he recommended, started reading it on my Kindle, and began following the advice contained within. Two weeks later, I was almost entirely pain-free. Now a year out, I can type all day without even the slightest twinge of pain. Seem too good to be true? I probably would've said the same thing if it hadn't happened to me. I will say one thing -- I've recommended this book to a number of people at this point, but not all of them have had the same kind of result I have. I've noticed the ones who really buy into it and become convinced that their pain has a psychosomatic basis see their pain disappear. The ones who still stick to the idea their pain is caused by an previous injury or old age -- those folks don't seem to get much benefit.

henrik_w 12y ago
An alternative data point: I had severe RSI several years ago, to the point of thinking that I would have to stop programming professionally alltogether. What worked for me was starting to use a break program (10 seconds micro breaks every 5 minutes, exercises for a few minutes every 45 minutes) and switching to a more ergonomic keyboard and mouse. It worked well for me, and I am now completely recovered. More details in "How I Beat Repetitive Stress Injury" http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/ http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/ Regardless of what works - any signs of RSI should be acted on immediately! It won't get better by itself.
- ericdykstra 12y ago
  Yet another data point here... After using the ergonomically suicidal Apple Magic Mouse and Apple wireless keyboard, I developed RSI after just a couple of months. I having my wrists and forearms massaged every night until the tightness went away (for the night), and I switched to a mechanical keyboard, a nice-sized gaming mouse, and started mousing with my left hand at work. I haven't had any RSI symptoms for over 2 years, and still just alternate mousing hands (left-handed at work, right-handed at home), and use a mechanical keyboard without a 10-key (keeps your mouse closer to a neutral position for your body). Here's what I use at work, if anyone is interested: Mouse: http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Deathadder-Infrared-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B002Q4U5DK http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Deathadder-Infrared-Gaming-Mouse... Keyboard: http://www.amazon.com/Storm-QuickFire-Rapid-Tenkeyless-Mechanical/dp/B007VDKLLM/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1413869364&sr=1-2&keywords=cmstorm+brown http://www.amazon.com/Storm-QuickFire-Rapid-Tenkeyless-Mecha...
  - henrik_w 12y ago
    Yes, Apple keyboards are ergonomical disasters.
    - mattlutze 12y ago
      Like Jobs' "software hobbyists" the Apple was originally built for, I suppose their keyboards are truly designed for the "typing hobbyist".
    - melling 12y ago
      Can you explain why? It would be beneficial to understand.
    - orand 12y ago
      I disagree. I've used all sorts of ergonomic keyboards, but always keep coming back to the quiet low-travel scissor-switch keyboards. I even went so far as to get an Apple wired keyboard for use with my Windows machine at work.
  - unknownBits 12y ago
roghummal 12y ago
And you'll also get a neon-green stress ball, absolutely free! But wait, there's more! If you call in the next thirty minutes, we'll double the offer! That's two magic books, two stress balls, all for the same low, low price!
jwr 12y ago
Seconded. I am grateful to Aaron Iba for posting his article (http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.html http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.htm...). I had similar experiences, and thanks to him my (severe) RSI problems are a thing of the past. There was a time when I was reduced to dictating and using touch-only keyboards (by FingerWorks) or ergonomic keyboards, and even that for a limited number of hours per day. These days I can type on anything, in any position, for any amount of time. Let's expand on the psychosomatic illnesses a little. Now (several years later) I know that there are a number of symptoms that are caused by my mind. I know when to expect them, I can make a pretty good guess whether a given problem is mind-caused or not. What I can't do is cure them completely, still working on that. But I do know that Sarno is right. Now, before you hit "reply" and go all-scientific, think for a moment. The problem we have is that we don't have ways to "measure" the mind. You can't easily just form control groups and do clinical trials. What works for one person might not work for another. So I can understand why doctors would rather stay away from the subject and pretend that the body and the mind are entirely separate (which is actually demonstrably untrue). They can't do anything else, as a doctor is sworn to only use scientifically-proven methods. I see this discussion come up regularly. There are usually two groups that form: people who managed to deal with their illnesses and people who say that all this psychosomatic illnesses talk is hogwash. I am in the former group and I am worried that the latter group prevents many people from healing. So, if you suffer from things like RSI, joint or tendon pain, back pain, muscle pain, jaw pain, frequent sore throat (yes), frequent sinus/nasal infections (yes), at the very least do yourself a favor and read one of Sarno's books. I'd also suggest other sources, but I simply don't know of any, except an increasing number of studies that show that we don't understand the "placebo effect" and that the mind has much more to do with physical health than was previously thought. Obviously, nobody suggests that any illness can be cured just by reading a book or thinking about it. There are certain physiological aspects of your body that your mind can influence and some that it can't. From what I observed myself, the two main "tools" are changing muscle tension and restricting blood flow. And finally: nobody (least of all Sarno) is saying that you should avoid talking to doctors. The first step is always to seek medical help and eliminate any physical cause. What should alarm you is when after multiple visits to doctors you're not getting any closer to curing the problem. Unfortunately, very few doctors will tell you clearly that they have no idea what is going on, so you have to listen and think. If you're doing test after test, if your doctors say "well, let's try [medication name here]", the problem you are observing might be the symptom, not the cause.
300bps 12y ago
I read a similar comment on Slashdot.org about 11 years ago when I was suffering from terrible wrist pain, hand numbness, etc. Here is additional information on the Sarno mind body approach to curing RSI: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html I am 11 years free of any wrist pain. I use a cheap crappy keyboard that came with an old Dell computer and a normal mouse to program about 60 hours per week.
blablabla123 12y ago
There was an article recently posted on HN. It's about itches and neurology, really long and slightly disgusting, still recommend it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8359390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8359390 [...] but perhaps also the hundreds of thousands of people in the United States alone who suffer from conditions like chronic back pain, fibromyalgia, chronic pelvic pain, tinnitus, temporomandibular joint disorder, or repetitive strain injury, where, typically, no amount of imaging, nerve testing, or surgery manages to uncover an anatomical explanation. [...]
djb_hackernews 12y ago
As a counterpoint, I also stumbled on to this same post at the same time as I was experiencing "RSI" (severe eye fatigue from computer use) I bought the book immediately, which is odd for me because I am extremely skeptical but it is a pretty good indication of the dire situation I found myself in. Within the first 20 pages I knew I had been had. The author is really proud of himself for being the only health care professional to finally connect the dots, and he takes at least the first half of the book telling as much. Looking back at the blog post and even this comment it is weird that no one actually acknowledges the "process" or provides any sort of detail on their own situation and what really worked for them.
freehunter 12y ago
Really? I haven't read the book, but I did look up a book review. Please tell me if the review is inaccurate, because... wow. I thought Freud was a little off his rocker. Dr. Sarno's theory can be stated simply: Most muscular/ skeletel pain is usually the result of early infantile and childhood trauma which has been repressed. The emotion involved is invariably that of profound anger and rage. So repressed childhood trauma causes RSI. I'm not saying that body pains can't be psychosomatic, but that's a heck of a conclusion there. It sounds like some serious placebo effect. I'd love to see it tested against a similar but different explanation (a belief in your brainwaves being blocked by the lizardmen who run the government, for example). http://primal-page.com/sarno.htm http://primal-page.com/sarno.htm

by flente 12y ago

henrik_w 12y ago

An alternative data point: I had severe RSI several years ago, to the point of thinking that I would have to stop programming professionally alltogether. What worked for me was starting to use a break program (10 seconds micro breaks every 5 minutes, exercises for a few minutes every 45 minutes) and switching to a more ergonomic keyboard and mouse. It worked well for me, and I am now completely recovered. More details in "How I Beat Repetitive Stress Injury" http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/ http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/ Regardless of what works - any signs of RSI should be acted on immediately! It won't get better by itself.

ericdykstra 12y ago
Yet another data point here... After using the ergonomically suicidal Apple Magic Mouse and Apple wireless keyboard, I developed RSI after just a couple of months. I having my wrists and forearms massaged every night until the tightness went away (for the night), and I switched to a mechanical keyboard, a nice-sized gaming mouse, and started mousing with my left hand at work. I haven't had any RSI symptoms for over 2 years, and still just alternate mousing hands (left-handed at work, right-handed at home), and use a mechanical keyboard without a 10-key (keeps your mouse closer to a neutral position for your body). Here's what I use at work, if anyone is interested: Mouse: http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Deathadder-Infrared-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B002Q4U5DK http://www.amazon.com/Razer-Deathadder-Infrared-Gaming-Mouse... Keyboard: http://www.amazon.com/Storm-QuickFire-Rapid-Tenkeyless-Mechanical/dp/B007VDKLLM/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1413869364&sr=1-2&keywords=cmstorm+brown http://www.amazon.com/Storm-QuickFire-Rapid-Tenkeyless-Mecha...
- henrik_w 12y ago
  Yes, Apple keyboards are ergonomical disasters.
  - mattlutze 12y ago
    Like Jobs' "software hobbyists" the Apple was originally built for, I suppose their keyboards are truly designed for the "typing hobbyist".
  - melling 12y ago
    Can you explain why? It would be beneficial to understand.
  - orand 12y ago
    I disagree. I've used all sorts of ergonomic keyboards, but always keep coming back to the quiet low-travel scissor-switch keyboards. I even went so far as to get an Apple wired keyboard for use with my Windows machine at work.
- unknownBits 12y ago

roghummal 12y ago

And you'll also get a neon-green stress ball, absolutely free! But wait, there's more! If you call in the next thirty minutes, we'll double the offer! That's two magic books, two stress balls, all for the same low, low price!

jwr 12y ago

Seconded. I am grateful to Aaron Iba for posting his article (http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.html http://aaroniba.net/articles/tmp/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain.htm...). I had similar experiences, and thanks to him my (severe) RSI problems are a thing of the past. There was a time when I was reduced to dictating and using touch-only keyboards (by FingerWorks) or ergonomic keyboards, and even that for a limited number of hours per day. These days I can type on anything, in any position, for any amount of time. Let's expand on the psychosomatic illnesses a little. Now (several years later) I know that there are a number of symptoms that are caused by my mind. I know when to expect them, I can make a pretty good guess whether a given problem is mind-caused or not. What I can't do is cure them completely, still working on that. But I do know that Sarno is right. Now, before you hit "reply" and go all-scientific, think for a moment. The problem we have is that we don't have ways to "measure" the mind. You can't easily just form control groups and do clinical trials. What works for one person might not work for another. So I can understand why doctors would rather stay away from the subject and pretend that the body and the mind are entirely separate (which is actually demonstrably untrue). They can't do anything else, as a doctor is sworn to only use scientifically-proven methods. I see this discussion come up regularly. There are usually two groups that form: people who managed to deal with their illnesses and people who say that all this psychosomatic illnesses talk is hogwash. I am in the former group and I am worried that the latter group prevents many people from healing. So, if you suffer from things like RSI, joint or tendon pain, back pain, muscle pain, jaw pain, frequent sore throat (yes), frequent sinus/nasal infections (yes), at the very least do yourself a favor and read one of Sarno's books. I'd also suggest other sources, but I simply don't know of any, except an increasing number of studies that show that we don't understand the "placebo effect" and that the mind has much more to do with physical health than was previously thought. Obviously, nobody suggests that any illness can be cured just by reading a book or thinking about it. There are certain physiological aspects of your body that your mind can influence and some that it can't. From what I observed myself, the two main "tools" are changing muscle tension and restricting blood flow. And finally: nobody (least of all Sarno) is saying that you should avoid talking to doctors. The first step is always to seek medical help and eliminate any physical cause. What should alarm you is when after multiple visits to doctors you're not getting any closer to curing the problem. Unfortunately, very few doctors will tell you clearly that they have no idea what is going on, so you have to listen and think. If you're doing test after test, if your doctors say "well, let's try [medication name here]", the problem you are observing might be the symptom, not the cause.

300bps 12y ago

I read a similar comment on Slashdot.org about 11 years ago when I was suffering from terrible wrist pain, hand numbness, etc. Here is additional information on the Sarno mind body approach to curing RSI: http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html http://www.rsi.deas.harvard.edu/mb_what_is.html I am 11 years free of any wrist pain. I use a cheap crappy keyboard that came with an old Dell computer and a normal mouse to program about 60 hours per week.

blablabla123 12y ago

There was an article recently posted on HN. It's about itches and neurology, really long and slightly disgusting, still recommend it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8359390 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8359390 [...] but perhaps also the hundreds of thousands of people in the United States alone who suffer from conditions like chronic back pain, fibromyalgia, chronic pelvic pain, tinnitus, temporomandibular joint disorder, or repetitive strain injury, where, typically, no amount of imaging, nerve testing, or surgery manages to uncover an anatomical explanation. [...]

djb_hackernews 12y ago

As a counterpoint, I also stumbled on to this same post at the same time as I was experiencing "RSI" (severe eye fatigue from computer use) I bought the book immediately, which is odd for me because I am extremely skeptical but it is a pretty good indication of the dire situation I found myself in. Within the first 20 pages I knew I had been had. The author is really proud of himself for being the only health care professional to finally connect the dots, and he takes at least the first half of the book telling as much. Looking back at the blog post and even this comment it is weird that no one actually acknowledges the "process" or provides any sort of detail on their own situation and what really worked for them.

freehunter 12y ago

Really? I haven't read the book, but I did look up a book review. Please tell me if the review is inaccurate, because... wow. I thought Freud was a little off his rocker. Dr. Sarno's theory can be stated simply: Most muscular/ skeletel pain is usually the result of early infantile and childhood trauma which has been repressed. The emotion involved is invariably that of profound anger and rage. So repressed childhood trauma causes RSI. I'm not saying that body pains can't be psychosomatic, but that's a heck of a conclusion there. It sounds like some serious placebo effect. I'd love to see it tested against a similar but different explanation (a belief in your brainwaves being blocked by the lizardmen who run the government, for example). http://primal-page.com/sarno.htm http://primal-page.com/sarno.htm