4 ms·

Lead JVM developers have stated this themselves Where? Who? Yes, of course they explore options and alternatives, and no solution is a panacea, but this debat

by personZ 12y ago

Lead JVM developers have stated this themselves Where? Who? Yes, of course they explore options and alternatives, and no solution is a panacea, but this debate is well over a decade and a half old: This is not new ground. And while we're in a world where Microsoft is saying "give it up with the whole value / reference type thing" (the value/reference type is an implementation detail), Java went ahead and optimized the existing platform to a pretty good degree, in many (but not all) cases, leaving it to a pretty good GC to pick up the pieces. Just to be clear, I'm no Java booster. I've spent a good chunk of my career heavily involved with .NET. But for all of the talk about the superiority of the .NET platform and its illustrious value types, it's Java that quite soundly takes the performance crown when they go head to head.

Skinney 12y ago
This years JVM Language Summit http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/community/jlssessions-2255337.html http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/community/jlss... Evolving the JVM By Brian Goetz and John Rose Also, take a look at project valhala: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/valhalla/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/valhalla/
Locke1689 12y ago
And while we're in a world where Microsoft is saying "give it up with the whole value / reference type thing" (the value/reference type is an implementation detail) No. First, they are semantically different, but second -- it's an implementation detail that provides better performance when used correctly. So, exactly what the parent was describing. This is not to say that the CLR couldn't also optimize better, but personally I'm just voting for Project N.
- personZ 12y ago
  It's an implementation detail that may provide better performance, but often provides no measurable difference at all (yes there is a profound semantic difference, and such is the foundation for the mechanism in the first place, but that hasn't been the context of this discussion). The parent was contrasting it against a JVM that does both better garbage collection, and actual escape analysis, so the comparison borders on absurd, and it is a statement made with zero context.
  - Locke1689 12y ago
    I can tell you that in Roslyn it is a very important component of our optimization strategy. System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray is an obvious example. As an extremely high performance managed application that competes directly with native code, it seems to be quite a good proxy for similar applications, including Minecraft.

by personZ 12y ago

Skinney 12y ago

This years JVM Language Summit http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/community/jlssessions-2255337.html http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/community/jlss... Evolving the JVM By Brian Goetz and John Rose Also, take a look at project valhala: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/valhalla/ http://openjdk.java.net/projects/valhalla/

Locke1689 12y ago

And while we're in a world where Microsoft is saying "give it up with the whole value / reference type thing" (the value/reference type is an implementation detail) No. First, they are semantically different, but second -- it's an implementation detail that provides better performance when used correctly. So, exactly what the parent was describing. This is not to say that the CLR couldn't also optimize better, but personally I'm just voting for Project N.

personZ 12y ago
It's an implementation detail that may provide better performance, but often provides no measurable difference at all (yes there is a profound semantic difference, and such is the foundation for the mechanism in the first place, but that hasn't been the context of this discussion). The parent was contrasting it against a JVM that does both better garbage collection, and actual escape analysis, so the comparison borders on absurd, and it is a statement made with zero context.
- Locke1689 12y ago
  I can tell you that in Roslyn it is a very important component of our optimization strategy. System.Collections.Immutable.ImmutableArray is an obvious example. As an extremely high performance managed application that competes directly with native code, it seems to be quite a good proxy for similar applications, including Minecraft.