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Having driven a Tesla, IMO if this engine still burns fossil fuels, it has no future (edit, folks, where "future" is the "5 to 10 years" noted in this article).

by zzzeek 12y ago

Having driven a Tesla, IMO if this engine still burns fossil fuels, it has no future (edit, folks, where "future" is the "5 to 10 years" noted in this article). Tesla should be proving that the combustion engine [will within the next 5-10 years, note this article is titled "Volvo bets its future"] no longer have a legitimate reason to exist for passenger cars.

TheCapn 12y ago
Have Tesla engines been proven to be 100% reliable in extreme cold conditions like certain parts of Canada and the rest of the world?
- jonknee 12y ago
  Considering how well they're selling in Norway, I'd say so.
- larsmak 12y ago
  They do sell very well here in Norway at least - and is said to behave decent during the winter: http://www.klikk.no/motor/bil/biltester/article896042.ece http://www.klikk.no/motor/bil/biltester/article896042.ece
  - stephencanon 12y ago
    Canada and the Northern US have much, much colder winters than the [densely populated parts of] Norway.
cones688 12y ago
> engine still burns fossil fuels It does, it's just centralised and called a power station... it's incredibly naive to think a Telsa isn't contributing to burning fossil fuels - it's just not in front of your face. Also I am not sure whether any modern power grid in the world could cope if even 10% of cars became PHEV, imagine the spike when everyone got home and plugged in their car - would be like a "TV Pickup[0]" on steriods, they usually cover these with short term solutions such as hydro pump but this wouldn't run the time it takes to charge a car. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup
- agumonkey 12y ago
  Interesting, I wonder if there's been some early studies for mass scale electric vehicles usage. ps: the tv pickup thing is funny.
- greglindahl 12y ago
  Teslas already have a feature that can be used to delay charging until the time-of-day electricity price is lowest. It's not rocket science to extend that to be sensitive to the amount of charging needed and the load on the grid. Most days, most Teslas only need a couple hours of charging. Also keep in mind that Tesla plans to develop a battery-based energy storage business.
- SeanLuke 12y ago
  > it's incredibly naive to think a Telsa isn't contributing to burning fossil fuels What if your area is predominantly nuclear or hydroelectric?
- zzzeek 12y ago
  well then Elon Musk himself is "incredibly naive". http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musks-ted-talk-on-tesla-spacex-and-solarcity-2013-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musks-ted-talk-on-tesla-... > First of all, he said, burning fossil fuels in a plant to generate electricity is more efficient that burning them in a combustion engine in a car. Because it is large and stationary, the plant can use the fuel much more efficiently: > In a stationary power plant, you can afford to have something that weighs a lot more, is voluminous, and you can take the waste heat and run a steam turbine and generate a secondary power source... > Even using the same source fuel, you're at least twice as better off. > Part two of Musk's argument is not based on numbers, but on the fact that electricity can be produced from renewable sources, most notably solar power: > We have to have sustainable means of power generation anyway, electricity generation. So given that we have to solve sustainable electricity generation, then it makes sense for us to have electric cars as the mode of transport.
m0nastic 12y ago
I think you're grossly underestimating the number of people that an electric car is a complete non-starter for. It's great that electric cars exist now (and maybe someday in the future I'd even be interesting in buying one once there existed infrastructure that made it feasible), but I think your timeline for the obsolescence of internal combustion engines is laughable.
- zzzeek 12y ago
  per the article, the volvo engine here will be rolled out in "5 to 10 years", so in 10 years yes I think the demise of the internal combustion engine will be well under way by then.
Someone1234 12y ago
As soon as a brand new Tesla costs between $20-30K (which is pretty typical for a new family car) you'll have a point. Right now they MIGHT be releasing a $36K car MAYBE at some unspecific point in the future. That also entirely ignores the range problems. Even with charging stations every few towns, you'll still have to stop for 30 minutes to "supercharge." That is as opposed to 5 minutes for petrol or diesel.
- vonmoltke 12y ago
  I just bought a turbodiesel specifically because of range. I can drive over 750 miles without stopping. Yes, I will drive that far without stopping if I have the capability.[1] With a Tesla, even with supercharging stations I would have to make three half-hour stops over that distance. On top of that, currently there is a huge station gap between Dallas and Miami, my most common long-distance route. In fact, I'm not sure I can actually get out of the Texas Triangle with a Tesla right now. [1] This has caused one co-worker to declare that he is never taking a road trip with me.
- zzzeek 12y ago
  we're talking here about "the future". The Volvo engine described will be ready in 5-10 years. It is very feasible that a $25K electric car is established within a timeframe like that. the range issue is essentially a different problem with electric cars, as you charge when you're parked. Charging can be done anywhere the electric grid is present, it's just a matter of access being established appropriately.

by zzzeek 12y ago

TheCapn 12y ago

Have Tesla engines been proven to be 100% reliable in extreme cold conditions like certain parts of Canada and the rest of the world?

jonknee 12y ago
Considering how well they're selling in Norway, I'd say so.
larsmak 12y ago
They do sell very well here in Norway at least - and is said to behave decent during the winter: http://www.klikk.no/motor/bil/biltester/article896042.ece http://www.klikk.no/motor/bil/biltester/article896042.ece
- stephencanon 12y ago
  Canada and the Northern US have much, much colder winters than the [densely populated parts of] Norway.

cones688 12y ago

> engine still burns fossil fuels It does, it's just centralised and called a power station... it's incredibly naive to think a Telsa isn't contributing to burning fossil fuels - it's just not in front of your face. Also I am not sure whether any modern power grid in the world could cope if even 10% of cars became PHEV, imagine the spike when everyone got home and plugged in their car - would be like a "TV Pickup[0]" on steriods, they usually cover these with short term solutions such as hydro pump but this wouldn't run the time it takes to charge a car. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup

agumonkey 12y ago
Interesting, I wonder if there's been some early studies for mass scale electric vehicles usage. ps: the tv pickup thing is funny.
greglindahl 12y ago
Teslas already have a feature that can be used to delay charging until the time-of-day electricity price is lowest. It's not rocket science to extend that to be sensitive to the amount of charging needed and the load on the grid. Most days, most Teslas only need a couple hours of charging. Also keep in mind that Tesla plans to develop a battery-based energy storage business.
SeanLuke 12y ago
> it's incredibly naive to think a Telsa isn't contributing to burning fossil fuels What if your area is predominantly nuclear or hydroelectric?
zzzeek 12y ago
well then Elon Musk himself is "incredibly naive". http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musks-ted-talk-on-tesla-spacex-and-solarcity-2013-3 http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musks-ted-talk-on-tesla-... > First of all, he said, burning fossil fuels in a plant to generate electricity is more efficient that burning them in a combustion engine in a car. Because it is large and stationary, the plant can use the fuel much more efficiently: > In a stationary power plant, you can afford to have something that weighs a lot more, is voluminous, and you can take the waste heat and run a steam turbine and generate a secondary power source... > Even using the same source fuel, you're at least twice as better off. > Part two of Musk's argument is not based on numbers, but on the fact that electricity can be produced from renewable sources, most notably solar power: > We have to have sustainable means of power generation anyway, electricity generation. So given that we have to solve sustainable electricity generation, then it makes sense for us to have electric cars as the mode of transport.

m0nastic 12y ago

I think you're grossly underestimating the number of people that an electric car is a complete non-starter for. It's great that electric cars exist now (and maybe someday in the future I'd even be interesting in buying one once there existed infrastructure that made it feasible), but I think your timeline for the obsolescence of internal combustion engines is laughable.

zzzeek 12y ago
per the article, the volvo engine here will be rolled out in "5 to 10 years", so in 10 years yes I think the demise of the internal combustion engine will be well under way by then.

Someone1234 12y ago

As soon as a brand new Tesla costs between $20-30K (which is pretty typical for a new family car) you'll have a point. Right now they MIGHT be releasing a $36K car MAYBE at some unspecific point in the future. That also entirely ignores the range problems. Even with charging stations every few towns, you'll still have to stop for 30 minutes to "supercharge." That is as opposed to 5 minutes for petrol or diesel.

vonmoltke 12y ago
I just bought a turbodiesel specifically because of range. I can drive over 750 miles without stopping. Yes, I will drive that far without stopping if I have the capability.[1] With a Tesla, even with supercharging stations I would have to make three half-hour stops over that distance. On top of that, currently there is a huge station gap between Dallas and Miami, my most common long-distance route. In fact, I'm not sure I can actually get out of the Texas Triangle with a Tesla right now. [1] This has caused one co-worker to declare that he is never taking a road trip with me.
zzzeek 12y ago
we're talking here about "the future". The Volvo engine described will be ready in 5-10 years. It is very feasible that a $25K electric car is established within a timeframe like that. the range issue is essentially a different problem with electric cars, as you charge when you're parked. Charging can be done anywhere the electric grid is present, it's just a matter of access being established appropriately.