6 ms·

Funny - just compare how Ubuntu was bashed for Amazon lens in Unity and how differently Apple is treated for the same (or even worse) things here on HN

micampe 12y ago
I see the opposite, but I always try to remind myself that it's just my (and your) bias showing and not comment on it, because I would almost certainly be wrong. For example, the highly inflammatory title for yesterday's submission (no privacy by design) stayed unmoderated for the entire day, until it went off the front page. This issue has had multiple submissions in the past two days and they received plenty of votes, it doesn't seem "HN" is giving it preferential treatment.
the_mitsuhiko 12y ago
My mac has not yet shown me advertisements for when I was looking for my files.
- jasonlotito 12y ago
  It does show "advertisements" of the same type as Ubuntu did. http://i.imgur.com/1hdtCjB.png?1 http://i.imgur.com/1hdtCjB.png?1 In fact, this shows two. Enabled by default in a release product. IIRC, Ubuntu never shipped with said feature.
- esolyt 12y ago
  They weren't advertisements. They were product search results. And the concern wasn't about the fact that it shows products, but about the fact that data was being sent to Amazon (unencrypted as well, I believe).
  - imdsm 12y ago
    My concern was that if I wanted to buy something, I'd go online and look for it. If I wanted to run an application, I'd search for it. It was a case of extremely terrible UX and wasted my time having to disable it each time I installed Ubuntu.
    - vacri 12y ago
      'apt-get remove unity-shopping-lens' hardly consumes a lot of time, particularly since you make it sound like you installed Ubuntu often enough to make it onerous - that often, and you'd remember the command without having to web-search for it.
      - mattmanser 12y ago
        Uninstalling bloatware also "hardly" consumes a lot of time. It's a step which no-one should have to take.
        vacri 12y ago
        You use scare quotes, suggesting you think it takes a long time. It really doesn't, not for anyone who has frequently installed ubuntu - it really is as fast as typing that line. Also, where did I say it was a good thing? I also think that having to deselect privacy markers in two places is also a step no-one should have to take. This thread is about why Ubuntu got raked over the coals and Apple didn't, and it takes longer to navigate to and unselect the two disparate options for the Apple search issue than to uninstall the Ubuntu thing. I mean seriously, of all the arguments against the Unity shopping lens, "I install ubuntu a lot and this wastes so much of my time" is such a non-starter. It takes more time to select a wallpaper.
        mattmanser 12y ago
        Are you so completely blind to other people's computer skills? It only takes a short amount of time for you because you know precisely what to do. There are literally millions of little "but that's so easy to change" on a computer, it's a huge cognitive tax. Other people will be "Why's there shopping results, wtf? How'd I get rid of this. What's going on?". After a few weeks of it annoying them they finally google it , find old information, run an old command, doesn't work, get annoyed, go make cup of tea in annoyance. Forget about it. Get even more annoyed over the next few weeks at Amazon results popping up, google again, finally find up-to-date blog post, find the right menu, go to the right place, click, finished. Until they install the next version in a year or two and the process happens all over again as they've forgotten how they did it last time. EDIT: There's a great little idea in the book Good Omens where the devil Crowley sets up projects of small amounts of misery to huge amounts of humans, rather than going after one soul at a time like other, old fashioned, demons. Auto-callers, motorways shaped like an ancient symbol for the devil (the M25). Crapware like this would definitely be something Crowley would be proud to come up with.
  - spacefight 12y ago
    " They weren't advertisements. They were product search results." That line is blurred these days.
    - beagle3 12y ago
      But it wasn't in the shopping lens. It was a bad idea. But let's not throw random general statements in a concrete discussion. Did you ever get a result from the shopping lens which could be mistaken for an advertisement rather than a product result you can buy on Amazon?
      - spacefight 12y ago
        It's a product you can buy on Amazon trough an affiliate link. If't that's not advertisement...
        beagle3 12y ago
        No, it's not [0]. You searched for something, and the default installation searches for it among your menus and in Amazon. Copyright infringement is not theft. Amazon lens is not advertisement. [0] http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/advertisement http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/advertisement
- imdsm 12y ago
  And hopefully they never will.
- tkubacki 12y ago
  so Apple's false privacy statements are not as bad as Ubuntu's Amazon search results ?
higherpurpose 12y ago
Same for Microsoft. There was barely any backlash at all when Windows 8.1 introduced search that also sent your local file searches to advertisers.
- tkubacki 12y ago
  can this be turned off ?
sbuk 12y ago
Are you suggesting that Apple is sending this data to advertisers? Do you have any evidence of this?
- tkubacki 12y ago
  no - I'm suggesting both situations are equally unpleasant for users and HN crowd tends to absolve Apple for any 'crimes' they commit - it's just funny (I'm using both Ubuntu and Mac on a regular basis)
  - sbuk 12y ago
    I'm not clear why it's unpleasant and the pejorative use of 'crime' is one that puts my back up over this. Spotlight's function is clearly stated and easily disabled. It is simply alarmism and sensationalism. The same can be reasonably said of the Amazon/Ubuntu debacle. TFA doesn't indicate who the 3rd parties are (other than a frankly 'trollish' reference to Microsoft) or what they are transmitting; other than search queries. One rationally presumes that if Spotlight - a search feature that has been present in OS X in one way or another for some time - can search the internet for results, then it follows that these queries need to be sent to. TFA fails to highlight whether or not these searches can be used to identify the individual user. A case of looking for a scandal where there is none.
    - tkubacki 12y ago
      being honest - I don't care that much. Really interesting (and somehow funny) are all those Apple apologists trying to rationalize/justify everything Apple does.
      - sbuk 12y ago
        There you go again! "Apple apologists". Apologising for what?
        tkubacki 12y ago

micampe 12y ago

I see the opposite, but I always try to remind myself that it's just my (and your) bias showing and not comment on it, because I would almost certainly be wrong. For example, the highly inflammatory title for yesterday's submission (no privacy by design) stayed unmoderated for the entire day, until it went off the front page. This issue has had multiple submissions in the past two days and they received plenty of votes, it doesn't seem "HN" is giving it preferential treatment.

the_mitsuhiko 12y ago

My mac has not yet shown me advertisements for when I was looking for my files.

jasonlotito 12y ago
It does show "advertisements" of the same type as Ubuntu did. http://i.imgur.com/1hdtCjB.png?1 http://i.imgur.com/1hdtCjB.png?1 In fact, this shows two. Enabled by default in a release product. IIRC, Ubuntu never shipped with said feature.
esolyt 12y ago
They weren't advertisements. They were product search results. And the concern wasn't about the fact that it shows products, but about the fact that data was being sent to Amazon (unencrypted as well, I believe).
- imdsm 12y ago
  My concern was that if I wanted to buy something, I'd go online and look for it. If I wanted to run an application, I'd search for it. It was a case of extremely terrible UX and wasted my time having to disable it each time I installed Ubuntu.
  - vacri 12y ago
    'apt-get remove unity-shopping-lens' hardly consumes a lot of time, particularly since you make it sound like you installed Ubuntu often enough to make it onerous - that often, and you'd remember the command without having to web-search for it.
    - mattmanser 12y ago
      Uninstalling bloatware also "hardly" consumes a lot of time. It's a step which no-one should have to take.
      - vacri 12y ago
        You use scare quotes, suggesting you think it takes a long time. It really doesn't, not for anyone who has frequently installed ubuntu - it really is as fast as typing that line. Also, where did I say it was a good thing? I also think that having to deselect privacy markers in two places is also a step no-one should have to take. This thread is about why Ubuntu got raked over the coals and Apple didn't, and it takes longer to navigate to and unselect the two disparate options for the Apple search issue than to uninstall the Ubuntu thing. I mean seriously, of all the arguments against the Unity shopping lens, "I install ubuntu a lot and this wastes so much of my time" is such a non-starter. It takes more time to select a wallpaper.
        mattmanser 12y ago
        Are you so completely blind to other people's computer skills? It only takes a short amount of time for you because you know precisely what to do. There are literally millions of little "but that's so easy to change" on a computer, it's a huge cognitive tax. Other people will be "Why's there shopping results, wtf? How'd I get rid of this. What's going on?". After a few weeks of it annoying them they finally google it , find old information, run an old command, doesn't work, get annoyed, go make cup of tea in annoyance. Forget about it. Get even more annoyed over the next few weeks at Amazon results popping up, google again, finally find up-to-date blog post, find the right menu, go to the right place, click, finished. Until they install the next version in a year or two and the process happens all over again as they've forgotten how they did it last time. EDIT: There's a great little idea in the book Good Omens where the devil Crowley sets up projects of small amounts of misery to huge amounts of humans, rather than going after one soul at a time like other, old fashioned, demons. Auto-callers, motorways shaped like an ancient symbol for the devil (the M25). Crapware like this would definitely be something Crowley would be proud to come up with.
- spacefight 12y ago
  " They weren't advertisements. They were product search results." That line is blurred these days.
  - beagle3 12y ago
    But it wasn't in the shopping lens. It was a bad idea. But let's not throw random general statements in a concrete discussion. Did you ever get a result from the shopping lens which could be mistaken for an advertisement rather than a product result you can buy on Amazon?
    - spacefight 12y ago
      It's a product you can buy on Amazon trough an affiliate link. If't that's not advertisement...
      - beagle3 12y ago
        No, it's not [0]. You searched for something, and the default installation searches for it among your menus and in Amazon. Copyright infringement is not theft. Amazon lens is not advertisement. [0] http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/advertisement http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/advertisement
imdsm 12y ago
And hopefully they never will.
tkubacki 12y ago
so Apple's false privacy statements are not as bad as Ubuntu's Amazon search results ?

higherpurpose 12y ago

Same for Microsoft. There was barely any backlash at all when Windows 8.1 introduced search that also sent your local file searches to advertisers.

tkubacki 12y ago
can this be turned off ?

sbuk 12y ago

Are you suggesting that Apple is sending this data to advertisers? Do you have any evidence of this?

tkubacki 12y ago
no - I'm suggesting both situations are equally unpleasant for users and HN crowd tends to absolve Apple for any 'crimes' they commit - it's just funny (I'm using both Ubuntu and Mac on a regular basis)
- sbuk 12y ago
  I'm not clear why it's unpleasant and the pejorative use of 'crime' is one that puts my back up over this. Spotlight's function is clearly stated and easily disabled. It is simply alarmism and sensationalism. The same can be reasonably said of the Amazon/Ubuntu debacle. TFA doesn't indicate who the 3rd parties are (other than a frankly 'trollish' reference to Microsoft) or what they are transmitting; other than search queries. One rationally presumes that if Spotlight - a search feature that has been present in OS X in one way or another for some time - can search the internet for results, then it follows that these queries need to be sent to. TFA fails to highlight whether or not these searches can be used to identify the individual user. A case of looking for a scandal where there is none.
  - tkubacki 12y ago
    being honest - I don't care that much. Really interesting (and somehow funny) are all those Apple apologists trying to rationalize/justify everything Apple does.
    - sbuk 12y ago
      There you go again! "Apple apologists". Apologising for what?
      - tkubacki 12y ago