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Yeah, Spotlight privacy options. He didn't touch Safari's; I did, and I got the same as cmelbye. To be honest, I feel like Landon found something that confirme

Yeah, Spotlight privacy options. He didn't touch Safari's; I did, and I got the same as cmelbye. To be honest, I feel like Landon found something that confirmed what he already suspected, and ran with it, rather than taking a moment to look at what he had (which is wrong). That makes me wonder about his goals, since I've been watching his work play out over the last few days. Why is the sky falling, again?

mikeash 12y ago
Maybe he did touch Safari's, but foolishly only looked in the "Privacy" section of Safari's preferences, rather than in the "Search" section where any normal person would know the privacy-related settings are actually found. OK, that's highly sarcastic, but I just went looking for these options and was gobsmacked to discover that no relevant options were present under Privacy.
- threeseed 12y ago
  Why would you look under Privacy ? Sending my search term to Apple which then simply does a back end aggregated search and returns the results does not invade my privacy. Unless of course you have some evidence that Apple is collecting those search terms.
  - mikeash 12y ago
    I completely disagree. Sending my search terms to Apple is an invasion of privacy. I feel like "don't share your info with other people" is such a basic aspect of privacy that I don't even know how to argue the point. I'm at a loss, as if you had said that trees are made out of meat, or that cars are delivered by storks.
    - eclipxe 12y ago
      Oh come on.
      - mikeash 12y ago
        If you think what I said was so absurd, I'd like to know what you think "privacy" entails, if it's not "don't share my info with other people."
    - cscurmudgeon 12y ago
      Is sending your search query to Google for Google instant an invasion of your privacy?
      - scintill76 12y ago
        Yes, if it was without consent or at least knowledge that it was happening.
        cscurmudgeon 12y ago
        Google automatically turned on Google Instant without explicit constent.
        scintill76 12y ago
        Are you talking the Chrome omnibar suggestions, or google.com search bar? I'm not sure the difference matters. Anyway, a thoughtful person can probably tell that means their partial queries are being sent to Google ("knowledge that it's happening", as I said above), and adjust it if that bothers them. With this Safari thing, it sounds like your queries are silently sent to Apple, in addition to Google or whoever your preferred search engine is. So, not only are they being sent somewhere without explicit consent, they are sent somewhere other than the place you explicitly consented to, in a way you won't see unless you dig into config dialogs/manuals and/or packet sniffers. Am I factually wrong on how this behavior works? Am I being too flexible in ethical gymnastics to avoid condemning Google, while condemning Apple? It was hard to articulate the difference, so frankly maybe it's just that I like Google more. But I think it's fair to say that for me personally, Google Instant is more transparent and fair than how this Apple behavior sounds. Also, to be honest, I haven't used Yosemite. I don't know if that invalidates my opinion. Maybe I should at least not form an opinion in this flame-fest of half-baked arguments from both sides.
scintill76 12y ago
If true, this is worth noting, but I don't think it completely redeems Apple. "We're going to make you untick as many boxes as possible, scattered through several dialogs, if you want to feel secure in the knowledge that your data won't be phoned home, no matter which particular place you're entering them." (Disclaimer: I'm generally anti-Apple and haven't used this version of the OS.)
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- threeseed 12y ago
  What on earth are you talking about ? The preferences aren't scattered through several dialogs. It's simply open Safari, goto Preferences, click on Search tab and uncheck the requisite Smart Search feature.
  - scintill76 12y ago
    ... then, head on over to Spotlight, and disable its similar feature, apparently distinct but named the exact same thing.[0] And hope there are no other instances of this type of thing. That's what on earth I'm talking about. People have pointed out that this option is kind of hard to find, even if you're looking for it (under Search, not Privacy.)[1] Also, if I chose the "Google" option, I might reasonably believe my searches were only being sent to Google, not Apple.[0] If this was a Microsoft computer, I'm pretty sure we'd all be angry if they had a default-on option phoning home Google queries! Is [0] downvoted because he is factually wrong about the two options, or because everyone is determined to prosecute him to fullest extent of the HN downmod, for originally being sensationalist/mistaken and/or for having certain views on privacy? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480364 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480239

mikeash 12y ago

Maybe he did touch Safari's, but foolishly only looked in the "Privacy" section of Safari's preferences, rather than in the "Search" section where any normal person would know the privacy-related settings are actually found. OK, that's highly sarcastic, but I just went looking for these options and was gobsmacked to discover that no relevant options were present under Privacy.

threeseed 12y ago
Why would you look under Privacy ? Sending my search term to Apple which then simply does a back end aggregated search and returns the results does not invade my privacy. Unless of course you have some evidence that Apple is collecting those search terms.
- mikeash 12y ago
  I completely disagree. Sending my search terms to Apple is an invasion of privacy. I feel like "don't share your info with other people" is such a basic aspect of privacy that I don't even know how to argue the point. I'm at a loss, as if you had said that trees are made out of meat, or that cars are delivered by storks.
  - eclipxe 12y ago
    Oh come on.
    - mikeash 12y ago
      If you think what I said was so absurd, I'd like to know what you think "privacy" entails, if it's not "don't share my info with other people."
  - cscurmudgeon 12y ago
    Is sending your search query to Google for Google instant an invasion of your privacy?
    - scintill76 12y ago
      Yes, if it was without consent or at least knowledge that it was happening.
      - cscurmudgeon 12y ago
        Google automatically turned on Google Instant without explicit constent.
        scintill76 12y ago
        Are you talking the Chrome omnibar suggestions, or google.com search bar? I'm not sure the difference matters. Anyway, a thoughtful person can probably tell that means their partial queries are being sent to Google ("knowledge that it's happening", as I said above), and adjust it if that bothers them. With this Safari thing, it sounds like your queries are silently sent to Apple, in addition to Google or whoever your preferred search engine is. So, not only are they being sent somewhere without explicit consent, they are sent somewhere other than the place you explicitly consented to, in a way you won't see unless you dig into config dialogs/manuals and/or packet sniffers. Am I factually wrong on how this behavior works? Am I being too flexible in ethical gymnastics to avoid condemning Google, while condemning Apple? It was hard to articulate the difference, so frankly maybe it's just that I like Google more. But I think it's fair to say that for me personally, Google Instant is more transparent and fair than how this Apple behavior sounds. Also, to be honest, I haven't used Yosemite. I don't know if that invalidates my opinion. Maybe I should at least not form an opinion in this flame-fest of half-baked arguments from both sides.

scintill76 12y ago

If true, this is worth noting, but I don't think it completely redeems Apple. "We're going to make you untick as many boxes as possible, scattered through several dialogs, if you want to feel secure in the knowledge that your data won't be phoned home, no matter which particular place you're entering them." (Disclaimer: I'm generally anti-Apple and haven't used this version of the OS.)

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
threeseed 12y ago
What on earth are you talking about ? The preferences aren't scattered through several dialogs. It's simply open Safari, goto Preferences, click on Search tab and uncheck the requisite Smart Search feature.
- scintill76 12y ago
  ... then, head on over to Spotlight, and disable its similar feature, apparently distinct but named the exact same thing.[0] And hope there are no other instances of this type of thing. That's what on earth I'm talking about. People have pointed out that this option is kind of hard to find, even if you're looking for it (under Search, not Privacy.)[1] Also, if I chose the "Google" option, I might reasonably believe my searches were only being sent to Google, not Apple.[0] If this was a Microsoft computer, I'm pretty sure we'd all be angry if they had a default-on option phoning home Google queries! Is [0] downvoted because he is factually wrong about the two options, or because everyone is determined to prosecute him to fullest extent of the HN downmod, for originally being sensationalist/mistaken and/or for having certain views on privacy? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480364 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480239