12 ms·

This is inaccurate alarmism. It shouldn't be surprising that the search bar makes autocomplete requests to Apple as you type. The address, phone number, and map

• declan 12y ago
  FWIW, the Github page says search terms in their tests were sent to Apple's API even "with all privacy options enabled": https://github.com/fix-macosx/yosemite-phone-home https://github.com/fix-macosx/yosemite-phone-home
  • jsmthrowaway 12y ago
    Yeah, Spotlight privacy options. He didn't touch Safari's; I did, and I got the same as cmelbye. To be honest, I feel like Landon found something that confirmed what he already suspected, and ran with it, rather than taking a moment to look at what he had (which is wrong). That makes me wonder about his goals, since I've been watching his work play out over the last few days. Why is the sky falling, again?
    • mikeash 12y ago
      Maybe he did touch Safari's, but foolishly only looked in the "Privacy" section of Safari's preferences, rather than in the "Search" section where any normal person would know the privacy-related settings are actually found. OK, that's highly sarcastic, but I just went looking for these options and was gobsmacked to discover that no relevant options were present under Privacy.
      • threeseed 12y ago
        Why would you look under Privacy ? Sending my search term to Apple which then simply does a back end aggregated search and returns the results does not invade my privacy. Unless of course you have some evidence that Apple is collecting those search terms.
        • mikeash 12y ago
          I completely disagree. Sending my search terms to Apple is an invasion of privacy. I feel like "don't share your info with other people" is such a basic aspect of privacy that I don't even know how to argue the point. I'm at a loss, as if you had said that trees are made out of meat, or that cars are delivered by storks.
          • eclipxe 12y ago
            Oh come on.
            • mikeash 12y ago
              If you think what I said was so absurd, I'd like to know what you think "privacy" entails, if it's not "don't share my info with other people."
          • cscurmudgeon 12y ago
            Is sending your search query to Google for Google instant an invasion of your privacy?
            • scintill76 12y ago
              Yes, if it was without consent or at least knowledge that it was happening.
              • cscurmudgeon 12y ago
                Google automatically turned on Google Instant without explicit constent.
    • scintill76 12y ago
      If true, this is worth noting, but I don't think it completely redeems Apple. "We're going to make you untick as many boxes as possible, scattered through several dialogs, if you want to feel secure in the knowledge that your data won't be phoned home, no matter which particular place you're entering them." (Disclaimer: I'm generally anti-Apple and haven't used this version of the OS.)
      • deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      • threeseed 12y ago
        What on earth are you talking about ? The preferences aren't scattered through several dialogs. It's simply open Safari, goto Preferences, click on Search tab and uncheck the requisite Smart Search feature.
        • scintill76 12y ago
          ... then, head on over to Spotlight, and disable its similar feature, apparently distinct but named the exact same thing.[0] And hope there are no other instances of this type of thing. That's what on earth I'm talking about. People have pointed out that this option is kind of hard to find, even if you're looking for it (under Search, not Privacy.)[1] Also, if I chose the "Google" option, I might reasonably believe my searches were only being sent to Google, not Apple.[0] If this was a Microsoft computer, I'm pretty sure we'd all be angry if they had a default-on option phoning home Google queries! Is [0] downvoted because he is factually wrong about the two options, or because everyone is determined to prosecute him to fullest extent of the HN downmod, for originally being sensationalist/mistaken and/or for having certain views on privacy? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480364 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8480239
• jsmthrowaway 12y ago
  Landon feels that disabling Spotlight Suggestions in OS X System Preferences would have an effect on Safari. I'm as mystified as you.
  • cscurmudgeon 12y ago
    Why doesn't Apple read my thoughts and disable everything?
• bo1024 12y ago
  It's not at all inaccurate. Might be alarmism, I don't know. But I think it just demonstrates the ways in which users' expectations about privacy are mismatched with the products they use. For example, your average non-tech-savvy user would never realize that an important privacy setting is in a search setting marked "suggestions". It's hard to say more without seeing the text of Apple's Privacy Documentation that is referred to at the top of the article.
  • jsmthrowaway 12y ago
    > For example, your average non-tech-savvy user would never realize that an important privacy setting is in a search setting marked "suggestions". Is this not clear enough? http://i.imgur.com/i1Zq3E4.png http://i.imgur.com/i1Zq3E4.png
    • ljfuller 12y ago
      Apparently not :-) Those instructions disable "Spotlight Results" only in Spotlight-as-in-desktop-Spotlight.
    • bo1024 12y ago
      It sounds like this is what the author of the article was reading. But there's nothing there about Safari.
  • dvhh 12y ago
    Let's imagine that the name would be replaced by a slightly let popular company, say one which name begin by an F or a G even one with an M, pichfork would have been already out.
• deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  • TylerE 12y ago
    > Wow so in other words feature with privacy violation or no feature at all? I.E. if you need search engine suggestions you have to give your search queries to Apple then? How is it not problematic? How the hell else would you expect it work? It's like saying you expect to drive your car forever and never need to refuel.
    • blinkingled 12y ago
      > In Yosemite, all Safari web searches are sent to not only the search engine you've selected (e.g., Google, DuckDuckGo), but also to Apple It would work perfectly fine if Apple only sent the search query to the search engine I have configured. Just like Chrome and Firefox do it.
      • jsmthrowaway 12y ago
        And then where would the Maps suggestions come from? The App Store suggestions? Have you used the feature at all?
        • blinkingled 12y ago
          I don't need Apple Maps to suggest anything to me. Where do I go to disable that? I don't see anything Maps related in any of the Safari or Spotlight options. Forcing it on by default so Apple gets all my queries is bad in itself - but not having an easy to find option to disable it is worse. Edit: Found it in Include Spotlight Suggestions in Safari options - that seems to stop the Maps results. It's a mess - Safari has an option that relates to Spotlight results which invisibly relates to Apple Maps results but there is no mention of Apple Maps in any of the Spotlight options. _And_ it is on by default - not enabled at first run after user consent.
          • ctdonath 12y ago
• deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
• kingnight 12y ago
  Would you be able to confirm what occurs with the default settings on (suggestions on for both spotlight and Safari) and the browser is kicked into private mode. I'd presume nothing is sent to Apple but can't test at the moment.
  • cmelbye 12y ago
    Sure: No requests are made while typing in address bar in private mode with default settings.
• ljfuller 12y ago
  Howdy, There are two "Spotlight Suggestions": - "Spotlight Suggestions" in Safari - "Spotlight Suggestions" in Spotlight Both query the same servers, both use the same name, and both return the same information. A reasonable person might believe that, having followed Apple's instructions for disabling "Spotlight Suggestions" (the Spotlight kind), they'd disabled "Spotlight Suggestions" (the Safari kind) -- especially if you didn't actually see any suggestions appear in Safari (I didn't!). Mark Rowe, Safari developer at Apple: "That’s probably a fair complaint." https://twitter.com/bdash/status/524005838743035904 https://twitter.com/bdash/status/524005838743035904 There needs to be a single checkbox: "Do not share my Spotlight data with Apple". There's already a single checkbox for "Diagnostics & Usage Data", and that should be respected too. The network query posted here is actually a search metrics POST, not a live search query, and it's used as metrics for local and remote search performance. p.s. It was also just pointed out to me that, having selected a specific search engine, a user would not be remiss in believing that their searches would be sent to the only the search engine they had selected.
  • cmelbye 12y ago
    Perhaps it would make sense to update your Gist to make it clear that Apple isn't trying to force people to funnel their searches through their servers, and that the real issue here is confusing UI?
    • blinkingled 12y ago
      Real issue isn't confusing UI although that is part of it - the real issue is that they are misleading the user as if their queries are going only where they want - to the search engine they configured. There is no indication that Apple is receiving a copy of every one of their queries to display Maps results that the user may or may not need. A privacy conscious implementation would ask the user on startup if they would like to include Maps results in their inline suggestions and if so do they agree to sending their queries to Apple.
    • ianlevesque 12y ago
      It's not even that confusing. This is just alarmism for pageviews. Of all the large tech companies right now, Apple has made the most moves to protect user privacy. Disabled 3rd party cookies by default in Safari, randomized WiFi queries, full device ios encryption, opt-in only crash reporting, restricted MAC and UDID access, zero information shared with ApplePay, etc. And yet we're supposed to get out the pitchforks over an autocomplete feature that's disableable with two checkboxes in the UI? Give me a break.