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> make us not trust anything. It should make us not trust that which should not be trusted. And that's a good thing.

by beagle3 12y ago

EGreg 12y ago
How do you figure that is a good thing? Most of the things we rely on today aren't fullproof. When it gets to the point that you wouldn't be able to trust your closest friends, you consider this situation better?
- beagle3 12y ago
  Trust is a statistical gamble. You already cannot trust emails or text messages from your closest friends because they are easy to spoof. And it is better when everyone is aware of that, I think. Whether you can (or cannot) trust your friend wasn't changed by technology, in my opinion. What you generally cannot trust is that info you confidentially told them was not eavesdropped. You never could, but statistically it was good enough. Now, statistically it isn't good enough, and therefore you shouldn't.
  - EGreg 12y ago
    You think you can trust your friends until governments and corporations hack human motivations and leverage the trust for short term gains until the connections are subverted. It's one of those externalities that are still undertapped and we all know how much organizations look to exploit externalities. Consider this: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-754.pdf http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-754.pdf and this: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140224/17054826340/new-snowden-doc-reveals-how-gchqnsa-use-internet-to-manipulate-deceive-destroy-reputations.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140224/17054826340/new-s... it's been done before with the KGB in USSR where your closest friend could also be a tattle-tale for the party, but that's just a tiny bit of what one could achieve with computers these days
    - beagle3 12y ago
      Please don't put words in my mouth. All I said is that recent events make no change in how much you can (or cannot) trust your friends, despite your original apocalyptic comment about all trust now being subverted. Governments and corporations have always engaged in social engineering. Facebook has been extremely successful at getting everyone to spy on themselves and their friends since 2004. MySpace and Friendster were less successful and earlier. The only thing that is new is the rate and scale of success.
      - EGreg 12y ago
        Right - I just meant that things could start accelerating exponentially and our systems may not be ready for that.

> make us not trust anything. It should make us not trust that which should not be trusted. And that's a good thing.

by beagle3 12y ago

> make us not trust anything. It should make us not trust that which should not be trusted. And that's a good thing.

EGreg 12y ago

How do you figure that is a good thing? Most of the things we rely on today aren't fullproof. When it gets to the point that you wouldn't be able to trust your closest friends, you consider this situation better?

beagle3 12y ago
Trust is a statistical gamble. You already cannot trust emails or text messages from your closest friends because they are easy to spoof. And it is better when everyone is aware of that, I think. Whether you can (or cannot) trust your friend wasn't changed by technology, in my opinion. What you generally cannot trust is that info you confidentially told them was not eavesdropped. You never could, but statistically it was good enough. Now, statistically it isn't good enough, and therefore you shouldn't.
- EGreg 12y ago
  You think you can trust your friends until governments and corporations hack human motivations and leverage the trust for short term gains until the connections are subverted. It's one of those externalities that are still undertapped and we all know how much organizations look to exploit externalities. Consider this: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-754.pdf http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-754.pdf and this: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140224/17054826340/new-snowden-doc-reveals-how-gchqnsa-use-internet-to-manipulate-deceive-destroy-reputations.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140224/17054826340/new-s... it's been done before with the KGB in USSR where your closest friend could also be a tattle-tale for the party, but that's just a tiny bit of what one could achieve with computers these days
  - beagle3 12y ago
    Please don't put words in my mouth. All I said is that recent events make no change in how much you can (or cannot) trust your friends, despite your original apocalyptic comment about all trust now being subverted. Governments and corporations have always engaged in social engineering. Facebook has been extremely successful at getting everyone to spy on themselves and their friends since 2004. MySpace and Friendster were less successful and earlier. The only thing that is new is the rate and scale of success.
    - EGreg 12y ago
      Right - I just meant that things could start accelerating exponentially and our systems may not be ready for that.