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> Gosh, I cannot possibly understand how anyone could think GG is misogynistic or disrespectful, when you are always so careful to use measured, even-handed lan

> Gosh, I cannot possibly understand how anyone could think GG is misogynistic or disrespectful, when you are always so careful to use measured, even-handed language. Valid criticism is not misogyny or even disrespect. I stated facts: 1. Zoe Quinn is manipulative and abusive. Source? Her own words on the Zoe post. Good analysis here: http://theflounce.com/harassment-abuse-apologism-sanitizing-abuse-social-justice-spheres/ http://theflounce.com/harassment-abuse-apologism-sanitizing-... 2. Zoe Quinn is hypocritical. Source? Her own words on the Zoe post. She says cheating is rape and then cheats. That's called hypocrisy. 3. Zoe Quinn is a sociopath. Boatloads of evidence. Doxxing, false flag attacks against WizardChan, or how about this Facebook post by her photographer: https://www.facebook.com/mallorie.nasrallah/posts/10152274324055882:0 https://www.facebook.com/mallorie.nasrallah/posts/1015227432...

ijk 12y ago
I thought this was about ethics in game journalism? I can't imagine why you'd still be talking about Zoe Quinn. After all, she wasn't involved in anything remotely resembling "journalistic corruption". [1] I also think that taking the words of an ex at face value is something very different from "her own words". [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/10/14/the-only-guide-to-gamergate-you-will-ever-need-to-read/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/10/...
- camperman 12y ago
  You can't imagine? When it's right there in front of you? I said if you want to judge the core by the fringe then you could judge the entire anti-GG side by Zoe Quinn's actions. smacktoward objected to my description of ZQ so I backed it up. "After all, she wasn't involved in anything remotely resembling "journalistic corruption"" Riiight. So her relationships with the five guys who just happen to be senior games journalists is a lie is it? The leaked emails of the Game Journo Pros mailing list is just a figment of my imagination is it? The mass censorship at Reddit, Kotaku, 4Chan, RPS and Polygon didn't happen did it? "I also think that taking the words of an ex at face value is something very different from "her own words"." You're an idiot. He provides specific proof on the very first page that the logs aren't doctored. Neither has she denied a word because, well, she can't.
  - ijk 12y ago
    > So her relationships with the five guys who just happen to be senior games journalists is a lie is it? Yep. The claims are a combination of false and irrelevant. [1][2][3][4][5][6] Not to mention that Depression Quest was getting plenty of coverage long before the alleged relationships. > The leaked emails of the Game Journo Pros mailing list is just a figment of my imagination is it? Perhaps you could explain to me why the list has any significance? I don't see any relevance. > The mass censorship at Reddit, Kotaku, 4Chan, RPS and Polygon didn't happen did it? Moderators deleting threads that go against the terms of service sounds pretty typical. What makes this any different? > You're an idiot. He provides specific proof on the very first page that the logs aren't doctored. Neither has she denied a word because, well, she can't. Let me take a step back here and ask: why does it matter? Even if the logs aren't doctored (which the video doesn't actually demonstrate at all) or taken out of context (ditto) what difference does it make? You seem to be claiming that a messy breakup justifies sending death threats to completely unrelated people. Perhaps you'd like to clarify? [1] http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346 http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-time... [2] http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/a-90-second-guide-to-determine-if-your-internet-cause-bs/ http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/a-90-second-guide-to-dete... [3] http://www.dailydot.com/geek/zoe-quinn-depression-quest-gaming-sex-scandal/ http://www.dailydot.com/geek/zoe-quinn-depression-quest-gami... [4] http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/zoe-quinns-depression-quest http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/zoe-quinns-depression... [5] http://theflounce.com/gamergate-seem-understand-ethics-nearly-well-thinks/ http://theflounce.com/gamergate-seem-understand-ethics-nearl... [6] http://atomicovermind.tumblr.com/post/96903894299/greg-costikyan-gamersgate-stfu http://atomicovermind.tumblr.com/post/96903894299/greg-costi...
    - Goladus 12y ago
      > You seem to be claiming that a messy breakup justifies sending death threats to completely unrelated people.\ No, you are the one saying he's saying that. And it's a subtle and dishonest, not to mention rude way of shifting the goalposts. There's this narrative that Zoe Quinn was attacked for being a female game developer just for being a female in the games industry oh the horror you better not be a female in the games industry or you are gonna get death threats to from angry male gamers in the gaming community for nothing but being a female trying to make games. Misogyny is everywhere especially in gaming. To counter that narrative, people point out that she got a lot of negative attention for what she did, or was alleged to have done, and the most extreme negative backlash was reprehensible. In other words, it wasn't because she was a woman. That she was female may have influenced the nature of some of the backlash, but not the backlash itself or how extreme they got. Idiots say "well I guess she deserved the death threats then?" No, the point was to debunk the stupid narrative about how women aren't safe on the internet or in the gaming community, not to discuss the finer points of what consequences Zoe did or didn't deserve for what she has done. Note how Phil Fish quickly faded into the background, even though he was harassed as badly as Quinn. That's because he doesn't fit the poor victimized women story.

ijk 12y ago

I thought this was about ethics in game journalism? I can't imagine why you'd still be talking about Zoe Quinn. After all, she wasn't involved in anything remotely resembling "journalistic corruption". [1] I also think that taking the words of an ex at face value is something very different from "her own words". [1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/10/14/the-only-guide-to-gamergate-you-will-ever-need-to-read/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/10/...

camperman 12y ago
You can't imagine? When it's right there in front of you? I said if you want to judge the core by the fringe then you could judge the entire anti-GG side by Zoe Quinn's actions. smacktoward objected to my description of ZQ so I backed it up. "After all, she wasn't involved in anything remotely resembling "journalistic corruption"" Riiight. So her relationships with the five guys who just happen to be senior games journalists is a lie is it? The leaked emails of the Game Journo Pros mailing list is just a figment of my imagination is it? The mass censorship at Reddit, Kotaku, 4Chan, RPS and Polygon didn't happen did it? "I also think that taking the words of an ex at face value is something very different from "her own words"." You're an idiot. He provides specific proof on the very first page that the logs aren't doctored. Neither has she denied a word because, well, she can't.
- ijk 12y ago
  > So her relationships with the five guys who just happen to be senior games journalists is a lie is it? Yep. The claims are a combination of false and irrelevant. [1][2][3][4][5][6] Not to mention that Depression Quest was getting plenty of coverage long before the alleged relationships. > The leaked emails of the Game Journo Pros mailing list is just a figment of my imagination is it? Perhaps you could explain to me why the list has any significance? I don't see any relevance. > The mass censorship at Reddit, Kotaku, 4Chan, RPS and Polygon didn't happen did it? Moderators deleting threads that go against the terms of service sounds pretty typical. What makes this any different? > You're an idiot. He provides specific proof on the very first page that the logs aren't doctored. Neither has she denied a word because, well, she can't. Let me take a step back here and ask: why does it matter? Even if the logs aren't doctored (which the video doesn't actually demonstrate at all) or taken out of context (ditto) what difference does it make? You seem to be claiming that a messy breakup justifies sending death threats to completely unrelated people. Perhaps you'd like to clarify? [1] http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346 http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-time... [2] http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/a-90-second-guide-to-determine-if-your-internet-cause-bs/ http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/a-90-second-guide-to-dete... [3] http://www.dailydot.com/geek/zoe-quinn-depression-quest-gaming-sex-scandal/ http://www.dailydot.com/geek/zoe-quinn-depression-quest-gami... [4] http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/zoe-quinns-depression-quest http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/zoe-quinns-depression... [5] http://theflounce.com/gamergate-seem-understand-ethics-nearly-well-thinks/ http://theflounce.com/gamergate-seem-understand-ethics-nearl... [6] http://atomicovermind.tumblr.com/post/96903894299/greg-costikyan-gamersgate-stfu http://atomicovermind.tumblr.com/post/96903894299/greg-costi...
  - Goladus 12y ago
    > You seem to be claiming that a messy breakup justifies sending death threats to completely unrelated people.\ No, you are the one saying he's saying that. And it's a subtle and dishonest, not to mention rude way of shifting the goalposts. There's this narrative that Zoe Quinn was attacked for being a female game developer just for being a female in the games industry oh the horror you better not be a female in the games industry or you are gonna get death threats to from angry male gamers in the gaming community for nothing but being a female trying to make games. Misogyny is everywhere especially in gaming. To counter that narrative, people point out that she got a lot of negative attention for what she did, or was alleged to have done, and the most extreme negative backlash was reprehensible. In other words, it wasn't because she was a woman. That she was female may have influenced the nature of some of the backlash, but not the backlash itself or how extreme they got. Idiots say "well I guess she deserved the death threats then?" No, the point was to debunk the stupid narrative about how women aren't safe on the internet or in the gaming community, not to discuss the finer points of what consequences Zoe did or didn't deserve for what she has done. Note how Phil Fish quickly faded into the background, even though he was harassed as badly as Quinn. That's because he doesn't fit the poor victimized women story.