5 ms·

If I were to build a keyboard I would definitely take a couple of ideas from typematrix. First of all, staggered keys make absolutely no sense(unles it's actua

by audunw 12y ago

If I were to build a keyboard I would definitely take a couple of ideas from typematrix. First of all, staggered keys make absolutely no sense(unles it's actually a typewriter). It takes a week to get used to a straight layout, and it feels more natural. It's not a problem to switch between staggered and matrix layouts either. Second thing I would copy is having enter and backspace between the two halves of the keyboard. If you touch type this area is unused, and it's less strain on your pinky finger. But anyway, this was really a great project, and a nice writeup :)

gurgus 12y ago
Thanks! A guy at my work has the typematrix keyboard - I like the idea but wasn't daring enough to go balls-to-the-wall and actually take that layout. He seems to like it, though!
- deckiedan 12y ago
  I have one at home that I use as my daily keyboard. It's pretty cool. One very nice thing is how quiet it is, especially with a 'skin' on it. One thing I really don't like about it is the lack of utilisation of the thumbs. I've been getting pain in (especially) my left thumb joint. I believe it's due to having to curl my thumb in to get to the meta / alt / windows keys. This was really bad on my work Microsoft keyboard, but isn't great on my typematrix either. I just got a second hand Kinesis Advantage keyboard for work, and really really like the thumb sections, and also the remapping support. In less than a week my thumb pain has cleared up quite a lot. I also really wish that the two sections on the typematrix were angled a bit outwards. It seems to work OK, since it's in rows it's a lot better than normal keyboards, but I feel that being able to spread my hands apart would be a good thing. I really really like the remapping support on the Kinesis advantage. I'm using the workman keyboard layout ( http://workmanlayout.com/ http://workmanlayout.com/ ) which seems to work very well for me. The biggest downside is the lack of native support for it. On the Advantage, I remapped it in about 45 seconds total, and now that keyboard works anywhere I plug it in, without needing any setup. Otherwise, though, I'm pretty happy with my typematrix. My wrist angles are waaay better than they ever were on a normal staggered qwerty keyboard. And it's so quiet I can type while my wife and baby are asleep on the couch right next to me without disturbing them. That certainly wasn't the case with my MS keyboards. I also really like how little desktop space it takes up - the mouse is now a lot closer and doesn't need a huge reach over to the side to pick up.
inclemnet 12y ago
> and it feels more natural I've always wondered about this - I don't disbelieve that some people feel this way, but is it really a general consensus? And is there a reason we should expect it, I don't see why staggered keys make fundamentally less sense.
- capisce 12y ago
  The standard staggered keyboard layout not symmetrical. If the layout of the keys were optimal for the left hand for instance, the "u" key should have been slightly to the right of the "j" key in order to have the same experience with the right hand. A good way to see if a keyboard actually tries to be ergonomic is to see if the left and right hand layouts are relatively symmetrical.
  - inclemnet 12y ago
    This argument is insufficient - even taking it at face value, it's only an argument that an optimal layout will be symmetrical, not that a given symmetrical layout is necessarily superior to a given asymmetrical one. In the context of straight columns, what seems strange about it is that my wrists are naturally at an angle when typing, because the width of my keyboard is less than the width of my shoulders. Straight columns intuitively seem like they would require more wrist distortion, not less. This might not be the case on a wider keyboard, but I don't think typematrix ones are significantly wider than 'normal' keyboards? I don't know if this reasoning is accurate or not, and I'm sure it can't be a real issue because typematrix keyboards are clearly popular, but I'm not convinced about it just because they're more symmetrical. Plus, in terms of general typing efficiency, I also don't know if I should believe the symmetry is actually important - it might be negligible compared to (for instance) the inefficiencies of qwerty that most people are using, or even compared to simple posture improvements.
    - capisce 12y ago
      Yes, I'm not saying the TypeMatrix pure grid layout is 100 % ideal, maybe there should be just a little bit of stagger to account for the angle of the wrists - but there should still be symmetry of course. I think the TypeMatrix is far superior to the standard staggered layout though, when it comes to the concerns you raise. The standard layout is just horrible, reaching "v" and "b" with the left index finger while keeping the rest in home position requires an uncomfortable amount of stretching. Even for the right hand, I think the standard layout errs on the side of too much stagger, which is evident when using the pinky to hit the "/" key. There is certainly a lot more wrist distortion than when using the TypeMatrix - there tends to be less distance between the "a" and "l" keys on a standard keyboard as the TypeMatrix places the Enter and Backspace keys in the middle. I guess the Kinesis Advantage might be more ideal in that regard, though I don't suffer from any significant wrist distortion with the TypeMatrix. My hands tend to look like this when using it: https://ploum.net/images/tmhands.jpg https://ploum.net/images/tmhands.jpg The small size of the TypeMatrix also makes it a win for me, as I occasionally bring it along with the laptop when I sit in the couch for example. Qwerty is another inefficiency, and I use Colemak myself. The difference between a standard keyboard and the TypeMatrix is still far from negligible.
bryanlarsen 12y ago
The Truly Ergonomic Keyboard[1] takes those ideas even further. Recommended. 1: https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php
- lvillani 12y ago
  I recall an AnandTech review pointing out that keycaps on the TECK quickly start to become glossy [1]. Is that still the case? What is your experience (if you own one)? [1]: "the keys come with a slightly textured finish. This in itself isn’t particularly noteworthy, but after just one month of typing I’ve found that many of the keys are starting to get a glossy sheen" (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6819/truly-ergonomic-computer-keyboard-review-one-month-with-the-teck/3 http://www.anandtech.com/show/6819/truly-ergonomic-computer-...)
  - bryanlarsen 12y ago
    I sent mine back. I do too much work on laptops and other people's computers: switching back and forth regularly was way too painful. I didn't notice any such effect in the couple of weeks I had mine. Not that I would have really noticed or cared.

by audunw 12y ago

gurgus 12y ago

Thanks! A guy at my work has the typematrix keyboard - I like the idea but wasn't daring enough to go balls-to-the-wall and actually take that layout. He seems to like it, though!

deckiedan 12y ago
I have one at home that I use as my daily keyboard. It's pretty cool. One very nice thing is how quiet it is, especially with a 'skin' on it. One thing I really don't like about it is the lack of utilisation of the thumbs. I've been getting pain in (especially) my left thumb joint. I believe it's due to having to curl my thumb in to get to the meta / alt / windows keys. This was really bad on my work Microsoft keyboard, but isn't great on my typematrix either. I just got a second hand Kinesis Advantage keyboard for work, and really really like the thumb sections, and also the remapping support. In less than a week my thumb pain has cleared up quite a lot. I also really wish that the two sections on the typematrix were angled a bit outwards. It seems to work OK, since it's in rows it's a lot better than normal keyboards, but I feel that being able to spread my hands apart would be a good thing. I really really like the remapping support on the Kinesis advantage. I'm using the workman keyboard layout ( http://workmanlayout.com/ http://workmanlayout.com/ ) which seems to work very well for me. The biggest downside is the lack of native support for it. On the Advantage, I remapped it in about 45 seconds total, and now that keyboard works anywhere I plug it in, without needing any setup. Otherwise, though, I'm pretty happy with my typematrix. My wrist angles are waaay better than they ever were on a normal staggered qwerty keyboard. And it's so quiet I can type while my wife and baby are asleep on the couch right next to me without disturbing them. That certainly wasn't the case with my MS keyboards. I also really like how little desktop space it takes up - the mouse is now a lot closer and doesn't need a huge reach over to the side to pick up.

inclemnet 12y ago

> and it feels more natural I've always wondered about this - I don't disbelieve that some people feel this way, but is it really a general consensus? And is there a reason we should expect it, I don't see why staggered keys make fundamentally less sense.

capisce 12y ago
The standard staggered keyboard layout not symmetrical. If the layout of the keys were optimal for the left hand for instance, the "u" key should have been slightly to the right of the "j" key in order to have the same experience with the right hand. A good way to see if a keyboard actually tries to be ergonomic is to see if the left and right hand layouts are relatively symmetrical.
- inclemnet 12y ago
  This argument is insufficient - even taking it at face value, it's only an argument that an optimal layout will be symmetrical, not that a given symmetrical layout is necessarily superior to a given asymmetrical one. In the context of straight columns, what seems strange about it is that my wrists are naturally at an angle when typing, because the width of my keyboard is less than the width of my shoulders. Straight columns intuitively seem like they would require more wrist distortion, not less. This might not be the case on a wider keyboard, but I don't think typematrix ones are significantly wider than 'normal' keyboards? I don't know if this reasoning is accurate or not, and I'm sure it can't be a real issue because typematrix keyboards are clearly popular, but I'm not convinced about it just because they're more symmetrical. Plus, in terms of general typing efficiency, I also don't know if I should believe the symmetry is actually important - it might be negligible compared to (for instance) the inefficiencies of qwerty that most people are using, or even compared to simple posture improvements.
  - capisce 12y ago
    Yes, I'm not saying the TypeMatrix pure grid layout is 100 % ideal, maybe there should be just a little bit of stagger to account for the angle of the wrists - but there should still be symmetry of course. I think the TypeMatrix is far superior to the standard staggered layout though, when it comes to the concerns you raise. The standard layout is just horrible, reaching "v" and "b" with the left index finger while keeping the rest in home position requires an uncomfortable amount of stretching. Even for the right hand, I think the standard layout errs on the side of too much stagger, which is evident when using the pinky to hit the "/" key. There is certainly a lot more wrist distortion than when using the TypeMatrix - there tends to be less distance between the "a" and "l" keys on a standard keyboard as the TypeMatrix places the Enter and Backspace keys in the middle. I guess the Kinesis Advantage might be more ideal in that regard, though I don't suffer from any significant wrist distortion with the TypeMatrix. My hands tend to look like this when using it: https://ploum.net/images/tmhands.jpg https://ploum.net/images/tmhands.jpg The small size of the TypeMatrix also makes it a win for me, as I occasionally bring it along with the laptop when I sit in the couch for example. Qwerty is another inefficiency, and I use Colemak myself. The difference between a standard keyboard and the TypeMatrix is still far from negligible.

bryanlarsen 12y ago

The Truly Ergonomic Keyboard[1] takes those ideas even further. Recommended. 1: https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php https://www.trulyergonomic.com/store/index.php

lvillani 12y ago
I recall an AnandTech review pointing out that keycaps on the TECK quickly start to become glossy [1]. Is that still the case? What is your experience (if you own one)? [1]: "the keys come with a slightly textured finish. This in itself isn’t particularly noteworthy, but after just one month of typing I’ve found that many of the keys are starting to get a glossy sheen" (http://www.anandtech.com/show/6819/truly-ergonomic-computer-keyboard-review-one-month-with-the-teck/3 http://www.anandtech.com/show/6819/truly-ergonomic-computer-...)
- bryanlarsen 12y ago
  I sent mine back. I do too much work on laptops and other people's computers: switching back and forth regularly was way too painful. I didn't notice any such effect in the couple of weeks I had mine. Not that I would have really noticed or cared.