7 ms·

My First Keyboard Build

268 points by gurgus 12y ago

lifeisstillgood 12y ago
A witty and self-deprecating write up of a first dive into hobby hardware - and a great result. I would also check out plover - steganography for the masses. Excellent - keep it up!
- blalabro 12y ago
  I think it is actually the opposite to self deprecating. The tone is the equivalent of an "ipsum lorem". He just wants you to focus in the big picture.
DanBC 12y ago
About the column wiring: You can buy ptfe sleeving and single core uninsulated wire. PTFE won't melt. Here's one example, it comes in a bunch of sizes and usually in 5 m lengths. Really great write-up btw!
- gurgus 12y ago
  Awesome - I'll definitely be using that for my next build! Thanks man!
- VLM 12y ago
  I'd extend the insulation remark that the cognitive load should be spread. So a hundred identical simple diodes should have insulation slipped on all of them and then the somewhat more cognitively challenging job of individual column wiring can just be bare wire. Another suggestion is I've never built a keyboard but I've done weird LED arrays and one trick to pre bend all the leads the same way, involves a chunk of scrap wood and a bunch of nails (and maybe multiple forming steps/bending jigs). Much like a sheet metal worker, you'll rapidly discover the leads will spring back a little and you'll have to bend them to 100 degrees if you want a right angle. Its just scrap wood and nails, so play around a bit. You can do it by hand but a bunch of nails in a block of wood works better and is faster overall. You were worried a bit about getting the diode polarity backwards. You have the source and you'd basically be inverting the bits you're polling with, see the gh60/matrix.c code. The system depends on the internal pull ups so you'd want to not enable the internal pull ups and solder in a couple external pull downs like 1K or so. Just saying it would be survivable and more fun than redoing all those diodes not that its necessarily a good idea. (edited to add, on your next build, if you want to try something really strange, wire up all the "rows" with 500 or so ohm resistors making a massive resistor divider such that the pin in the middle is at 2.5 volts and 0 and 5 volts at the ends, and then wire up the other pins in parallel. So you hit the 1st of 10 and get an analog voltage of 0.5 volts, hit the 5th of 10 and the analogy voltage of 2.5 volts (for 5V anyway) and have the stereotypical onboard A/D microcontroller input sample it. Some MC are not very high res or stable. I imagine this would be an interesting key debouncing challenge involving painful latency, but it would be cool in an insane way)
  - gurgus 12y ago
    Wow awesome ideas! Also thanks for the bending ideas too - it would definitely help make things much easier on the eye too!
kfihihc 12y ago
Cool. I also building my own GH60 keyboard.
- gurgus 12y ago
  Nice man. Definitely go for it. It took a fair amount of effort to build mine, but it was (and still is) such a rewarding feeling to have finished a project like this. If you have any questions or just want to bounce some ideas please feel free to give me a buzz. I'm always interested in other peoples DIY projects :)
crististm 12y ago
That's a nice hack. Gives me motivation to build a custom Emacs keyboard myself.
- gurgus 12y ago
  Thanks! As I'll tell everyone, just go for it. It takes some time/effort but is such a fun thing to do.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
Current keyboard designs bug me, to put it mildly. Put a mux on each group of switches, have the microcontroller rapidly scan the muxes to determine which switches are down. And now all of a sudden you have a keyboard that you can actually press down as many keys as you need and it still works. Except it won't. Because USB keyboards don't support arbitrary numbers of keys being pressed at once.
- idbfs 12y ago
  "Because USB keyboards don't support arbitrary numbers of keys being pressed at once." There is actually nothing in the USB or HID specifications preventing USB keyboards from supporting n-key rollover (when using the report protocol -- keyboards using the boot protocol are limited to a 6-key rollover). The reason most don't is simply to reduce cost and complexity. A sufficiently motivated person could build a USB-compliant keyboard that supported an arbitrary number of simultaneoue keypresses, and some do (e.g. http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x9-red-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.html http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x9-red-bac...).
  - makomk 12y ago
    Apparently there are all kinds of interesting bugs out there in the wild that you run into if you actually build a USB keyboard with full n-key rollover - enough that most manufacturers just emulate two keyboards and call it a day.
  - TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
    Unfortunately, specifications are great, but in actuality you have to take a look at what is implemented as opposed to what is supposed to be implemented. In particular, if you try to go over 6-key rollover, good luck. You end up having to, and I'm not making this up, emulate a USB hub connected to multiple keyboards. It's absurd. And all because of the following: "However, the compatibility version of HID that all present systems implement limits USB keyboards to reporting a mere six regular keys together with four modifiers. Additional keys pressed beyond the limit will generally cause some of the other keys to be dropped." [http://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_blocking_and_ghosting#Interface-limited_NKRO http://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_blocking_and_ghosting#...] "non-working n-key rollover with a USB connection is a side effect of the data packet." [http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5572.msg85020#msg85020 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5572.msg85020#msg85020] (Effectively, instead of doing make:key / break:key packets, the compatibility version of HID does current_keys_pressed:[array of 6 keys]. Why they didn't stick with the make/break of the PS/2 protocol is beyond me.)
audunw 12y ago
If I were to build a keyboard I would definitely take a couple of ideas from typematrix. First of all, staggered keys make absolutely no sense(unles it's actually a typewriter). It takes a week to get used to a straight layout, and it feels more natural. It's not a problem to switch between staggered and matrix layouts either. Second thing I would copy is having enter and backspace between the two halves of the keyboard. If you touch type this area is unused, and it's less strain on your pinky finger. But anyway, this was really a great project, and a nice writeup :)
- gurgus 12y ago
  Thanks! A guy at my work has the typematrix keyboard - I like the idea but wasn't daring enough to go balls-to-the-wall and actually take that layout. He seems to like it, though!
  - deckiedan 12y ago
    I have one at home that I use as my daily keyboard. It's pretty cool. One very nice thing is how quiet it is, especially with a 'skin' on it. One thing I really don't like about it is the lack of utilisation of the thumbs. I've been getting pain in (especially) my left thumb joint. I believe it's due to having to curl my thumb in to get to the meta / alt / windows keys. This was really bad on my work Microsoft keyboard, but isn't great on my typematrix either. I just got a second hand Kinesis Advantage keyboard for work, and really really like the thumb sections, and also the remapping support. In less than a week my thumb pain has cleared up quite a lot. I also really wish that the two sections on the typematrix were angled a bit outwards. It seems to work OK, since it's in rows it's a lot better than normal keyboards, but I feel that being able to spread my hands apart would be a good thing. I really really like the remapping support on the Kinesis advantage. I'm using the workman keyboard layout ( http://workmanlayout.com/ http://workmanlayout.com/ ) which seems to work very well for me. The biggest downside is the lack of native support for it. On the Advantage, I remapped it in about 45 seconds total, and now that keyboard works anywhere I plug it in, without needing any setup. Otherwise, though, I'm pretty happy with my typematrix. My wrist angles are waaay better than they ever were on a normal staggered qwerty keyboard. And it's so quiet I can type while my wife and baby are asleep on the couch right next to me without disturbing them. That certainly wasn't the case with my MS keyboards. I also really like how little desktop space it takes up - the mouse is now a lot closer and doesn't need a huge reach over to the side to pick up.
leoc 12y ago
'Tis pity. There's really no reason to go to all this effort and expense and not split the spacebar into left and right buttons, not add any other thumbable modifier keys, and worst, include neither a pointing stick nor a thumbable trackpad.
- gurgus 12y ago
  Hah, it's still early days man! This is the first build of many to come. As I stated in the blog post, this build was just to see if I was capable of doing it since most of the skills I didn't possess before starting the build. Now that I know how to do this sort of stuff I'm definitely going to be exploring all the things I can do in the future.
moron4hire 12y ago
Excellent build quality, but I was surprised by these two statements on things you need: A decent soldering iron. You will thank yourself later. Also note: you will burn yourself many times throughout the build. Might as well do it with a fancy iron! LEADED SOLDER – I started the build without leaded solder and oh dear… If you have a "decent soldering iron", then lead-free solder shouldn't be a problem. Also, if you live in the EU, leaded solder will be extremely difficult to come by. Well, even with a really crappy iron, as long as the tip is fresh, you shouldn't have a problem. Most people's problems with soldering come from not having the tip wet enough and not using enough solder, thereby not making enough contact with the wire and not putting heat into it fast enough to get that specific location hot before the heat conducts away into the rest of the wire. Remember, the entire reason we're using the wire is because it's an excellent conductor. For that reason, thicker gauge wire is also going to be more difficult to work. And the only reason to use larger gauges of wire is to support more current. Keyboards run on extremely little current already. You probably could have done this with magnet wire and been fine (though I wouldn't recommend it, magnet wire is difficult to work for different reasons). So crank up the heat. Get it into the wire as fast as possible. Lead-free solder generally needs higher heat than leaded solder anyway. Apply the solder, apply the wire, then wait a second before removing the iron, because you also have to heat the wire you're pushing in. Soldering is a chemical bond, the metals physically mix, and you need to get them up to the right heat to do that. And keep it steady, any movement while it is cooling will create microfractures in the solder joint.
- gurgus 12y ago
  Thanks for the tips! I found it very difficult to do the soldering due to an extremely unsteady hand and not a whole lot of experience. I 100% agree with everything you're saying though - I just ran with what I thought worked.
  - michaelt 12y ago
    It looks, in the photos, like you were trying to solder together two diode leads in mid-air. The trick to soldering when you have unsteady hands is to set things up so if you press harder the two things being soldered make better contact, instead of being pushed apart. That way you can rest the tip of the iron on the workpiece. Soldering leads together in the air can be a right pain, because you can't press on hard without them moving apart. You can usually find tricks to avoid it though - like putting an old PCB and some packing material below the joint, so you have something to push against, and twisting the leads together so they can't move apart as easily.
userbinator 12y ago
if anyone doing a hand-wired build has a better/more efficient method of making the cables for the columns, please let me know Use self-fluxing enameled wire. It's insulated with an enamel that melts/converts into flux at soldering temperatures, so all you need to do is wrap a turn around the post of each switch contact for a column, then add solder to complete the connection. Some are sold in a convenient pencil-shaped dispenser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_pencil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_pencil ). I've always wanted to build a keyboard for fast typing, with ultra-light low-travel leaf-spring switches that have a more "bouncy" feel. When trying to type at 160WPM+ it matters far less what kind of sound or tactile feel the keys produce as you care more about the key actuating immediately when hit and providing some spring action to help the finger back up afterward. A leaf-mounted keycap has essentially no sliding friction, which means very little difference in force required between hitting it obliquely or perpendicularly. Isn't buying a premade MCU board for a "keyboard from scratch" cheating a little? I'd go with a deadbugged 8749 in a DIP-40 package, the classic MCU for a keyboard controller. :-)
- gurgus 12y ago
  Oh wow thanks for the wire tip! That will definitely make life easier :) As I say to everyone questioning whether to do a keyboard build (or any DIY project) - go for it! Let me know how you go :) edit: Didn't see your comments about the cheating bit. You are right, it probably was cheating a touch - it didn't quite occur to me until you said it. I'll see how I go with my next build and work out how to cheat a bit less, haha!
- cyanoacry 12y ago
  Self-fluxing enameled wire is great for more than just a simple keyboard project, too---it scales to microcontroller-scale projects, if you have enough patience: http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html It's a good solution if you have some reason (money or time restrictions) that you can't order a PCB. The biggest downside of free-wiring like this though is that you don't have a whole lot of structural rigidity, but the steel that OP uses more than makes up for this.
- slantyyz 12y ago
thisjepisje 12y ago
Now make a dictaphone :P For real though, here's another guy who makes keyboards: http://mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitch/ http://mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitch/ They're a bit weirder and with very light switches.
- gurgus 12y ago
  Wow those are some crazy keyboards!
mohamedattahri 12y ago
Reminds me of a beautiful quote: "If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you have to first build the universe."
- gurgus 12y ago
  Haha, I like it!
melling 12y ago
Has anyone built a DataHand or something else that "reinvents" the keyboard? This is already two decades old. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand
- sparkie 12y ago
  There's an ongoing effort by someone to recreate it: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0
  - melling 12y ago
    Seems to be going slowly. This would be a great Kickstarter project. I'd buy one. Wonder how to gauge the actual Kickstarter interest before putting in the effort?
- bestnoodles 12y ago
  I've been interested by this project: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/70308014/kings-assembly-a-computer-mouse-full-of-awesome?ref=discovery https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/70308014/kings-assembly...
ghammy 12y ago
Dave Cooper as seen in Se110 and UCP120? Awesome build and write up mate! Very inspiring! :)
- mercluke 12y ago
  nah, it's not curtin dave. It's ECU dave
zokier 12y ago
Probably one of the first projects I'll make once I get my electronics workspace set up is a small keyboard based on TL1240 switches. Like OP, I have found the state of free CAD software bit disappointing, moreso for libre ones. So far my favorite has been the free 2D version of SolidEdge, but it has its quirks and like the name implies it doesn't do 3D at all.
pcl 12y ago
With a diode matrix, is it possible to distinguish multiple simultaneous key presses? And if not, how do you handle modifier keys? Looking at your photo, it would seem that they're wired into the matrix in the same fashion as the rest of the keys.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- wyager 12y ago
  Yes, you can detect an arbitrary number of simultaneous keypresses. The only limitation is that you can only scan one of the dimensions in parallel.
zck 12y ago
If you're interested in soldering together a keyboard, but not having to design everything from scratch, it's worth checking out the Ergodox: http://ergodox.org/ http://ergodox.org/ . I built one a month ago, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's a two-piece keyboard with straight key columns, and six buttons for each thumb. You can order the parts on massdrop, when they start another order: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?s=ergodox https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?s=ergodox It's not perfect, mind you: the thumb islands are three buttons wide, and my thumb rests on the innermost button. And I have hands larger than average; I don't know how someone with smaller hands would find the board. Also, because of the layout changes, some keys (the square braces, enter, - and =) have to be moved somewhere else; the buttons you're used to pressing just aren't there. There are some tiny parts; if you buy it, get a head-mounted magnifier with a light, like this one: http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1413732059&sr=8-2&keywords=soldering+magnifier http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magn... . I don't know how I would've been able to surface-mount the tiny diodes without it. Obviously, the downside to having a keyboard with radically different placements of buttons is that going to other keyboards becomes difficult again. I haven't solved this problem, but might end up buying a second one for work.
- ljk 12y ago
  Are you familiar with the Kinesis Advantage keyboards? The keys are also separated into two sections but sitting on one keyboard, but no DIY needed. I just started using one recently, but never used ErgoDox before, and wanted to see if anyone has any experience with using both of them.
  - scottjad 12y ago
    Anandtech reviewed both keyboards maybe a year ago and preferred the Kinesis Advantage FWIW. You could checkout their reviews to see why.
  - zck 12y ago
    Yes, I tried that for a while, and didn't like it. Here's why: 1. It has Cherry MX Browns. I like more clickiness. 2. I found the curved alignment of the keys annoying. The thumb keys also felt off, but I don't recall how. 3. The remapping support for Kinesis is far inferior to Ergodox's. When I talked to tech support, they recommended using macros rather than remapping keys. This is because switching from Qwerty to Dvorak wipes any key remappings. Certainly I don't want to risk losing my keyboard layout, so macros are the way to go. But there's a maximum of 48 macros that can be stored, so you could only remap 48 keys. That's probably an acceptable limit if you don't need a bunch of extra macros. However, having a lot of macros means you might lose keystrokes^1. Compare this to the Ergodox, which lets you place any key anywhere with no downside other than your memory and ergonomics. You can also have multiple key layouts, and switch between them easily. 4. I was trying to switch to the Kinesis while at work, making it more frustrating when I was slow. I switched to the Ergodox at home, so I had more time. I also got the Ergodox after I tried the Kinesis, so some of the muscle memory was already entrenched when I got the Ergodox. 5. I borrowed the Kinesis, but bought and assembled the Ergodox. This means I was more invested in liking the Ergodox, whether or not it was actually better. [1] http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/support/technical-support/faqs-advantage-keyboard/ http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/support/technical-support/faqs-a... , the section "How do I switch between the macro memory configurations of 24, 36, or 48 macros?" states "Fast typists will often lose keystrokes from certain common words with the 48 macro setting, and very fast typists may even lose keystrokes using the 36 macro setting."
resca79 12y ago
I have not the competences to do something like that but in my opinion this is original hacking. In a small town of Sicily (near where I live) some guys are making incredible stuff with retro - computing[1]. They have restore hold computers like PDP11, apple one with all original components. [1] http://museo.freaknet.org/en http://museo.freaknet.org/en
robryk 12y ago
I think that it'd be feasible to "teach" the firmware assignment of pins to rows/columns by pressing the keys in sequence upon first startup. You could probably even get away with pressing every key in any order in the "teaching" step if you installed some precisely chosen diodes in reverse.
pistle 12y ago
OP. Consider using "spindly" or "strength-neglected" instead of "girly" arms when describing your weakness. Plenty of women have strong arms. You did a decent job of being inclusive except for that spot. Nice work on the keyboard and article.
michaelbuddy 12y ago
I wasn't necessarily expecting the parts for a keyboard build to be cheaper than an already assembled mechanical but that Gons site is selling keyboard kits for $470 !? That seems really high to me. I'm not even sure if that price includes everything you need to build on. I'm wondering how normal that is for this kind of thing or if you're kind of buying support along with the price, which would make it worth it I guess.
coryking 12y ago
This is quite an inspiring article, thanks! Your photography could be improved if you got a white sheet of paper or maybe some posterboard (eg: http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-economy-white-posterboard/ http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-economy-white-poster...). Put that under and behind whatever you are taking a picture of and it will make a more neutral, less busy background. If you want to get more complicated, get a tripod. A good guide for taking your kind of photos is here: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+To+Take+Amazing+Photos/718 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+To+Take+Amazing+Photos/718 Lastly, make sure to have a link to higher resolution pictures :-) Cheers!
rdc12 12y ago
I think this pretty cool, but I can't really see why you would be so conventional in a custom keyboard. I would end up remaking the space cadet or something similar I bet. I assume a modern linux install can handle the extra modifier keys

268 points by gurgus 12y ago

A witty and self-deprecating write up of a first dive into hobby hardware - and a great result. I would also check out plover - steganography for the masses. Excellent - keep it up!

blalabro 12y ago
I think it is actually the opposite to self deprecating. The tone is the equivalent of an "ipsum lorem". He just wants you to focus in the big picture.

DanBC 12y ago

About the column wiring: You can buy ptfe sleeving and single core uninsulated wire. PTFE won't melt. Here's one example, it comes in a bunch of sizes and usually in 5 m lengths. Really great write-up btw!

gurgus 12y ago
Awesome - I'll definitely be using that for my next build! Thanks man!
VLM 12y ago
I'd extend the insulation remark that the cognitive load should be spread. So a hundred identical simple diodes should have insulation slipped on all of them and then the somewhat more cognitively challenging job of individual column wiring can just be bare wire. Another suggestion is I've never built a keyboard but I've done weird LED arrays and one trick to pre bend all the leads the same way, involves a chunk of scrap wood and a bunch of nails (and maybe multiple forming steps/bending jigs). Much like a sheet metal worker, you'll rapidly discover the leads will spring back a little and you'll have to bend them to 100 degrees if you want a right angle. Its just scrap wood and nails, so play around a bit. You can do it by hand but a bunch of nails in a block of wood works better and is faster overall. You were worried a bit about getting the diode polarity backwards. You have the source and you'd basically be inverting the bits you're polling with, see the gh60/matrix.c code. The system depends on the internal pull ups so you'd want to not enable the internal pull ups and solder in a couple external pull downs like 1K or so. Just saying it would be survivable and more fun than redoing all those diodes not that its necessarily a good idea. (edited to add, on your next build, if you want to try something really strange, wire up all the "rows" with 500 or so ohm resistors making a massive resistor divider such that the pin in the middle is at 2.5 volts and 0 and 5 volts at the ends, and then wire up the other pins in parallel. So you hit the 1st of 10 and get an analog voltage of 0.5 volts, hit the 5th of 10 and the analogy voltage of 2.5 volts (for 5V anyway) and have the stereotypical onboard A/D microcontroller input sample it. Some MC are not very high res or stable. I imagine this would be an interesting key debouncing challenge involving painful latency, but it would be cool in an insane way)
- gurgus 12y ago
  Wow awesome ideas! Also thanks for the bending ideas too - it would definitely help make things much easier on the eye too!

kfihihc 12y ago

Cool. I also building my own GH60 keyboard.

gurgus 12y ago
Nice man. Definitely go for it. It took a fair amount of effort to build mine, but it was (and still is) such a rewarding feeling to have finished a project like this. If you have any questions or just want to bounce some ideas please feel free to give me a buzz. I'm always interested in other peoples DIY projects :)

crististm 12y ago

That's a nice hack. Gives me motivation to build a custom Emacs keyboard myself.

gurgus 12y ago
Thanks! As I'll tell everyone, just go for it. It takes some time/effort but is such a fun thing to do.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

TheLoneWolfling 12y ago

Current keyboard designs bug me, to put it mildly. Put a mux on each group of switches, have the microcontroller rapidly scan the muxes to determine which switches are down. And now all of a sudden you have a keyboard that you can actually press down as many keys as you need and it still works. Except it won't. Because USB keyboards don't support arbitrary numbers of keys being pressed at once.

idbfs 12y ago
"Because USB keyboards don't support arbitrary numbers of keys being pressed at once." There is actually nothing in the USB or HID specifications preventing USB keyboards from supporting n-key rollover (when using the report protocol -- keyboards using the boot protocol are limited to a 6-key rollover). The reason most don't is simply to reduce cost and complexity. A sufficiently motivated person could build a USB-compliant keyboard that supported an arbitrary number of simultaneoue keypresses, and some do (e.g. http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x9-red-backlit-mechanical-keyboard.html http://www.maxkeyboard.com/max-keyboard-nighthawk-x9-red-bac...).
- makomk 12y ago
  Apparently there are all kinds of interesting bugs out there in the wild that you run into if you actually build a USB keyboard with full n-key rollover - enough that most manufacturers just emulate two keyboards and call it a day.
- TheLoneWolfling 12y ago
  Unfortunately, specifications are great, but in actuality you have to take a look at what is implemented as opposed to what is supposed to be implemented. In particular, if you try to go over 6-key rollover, good luck. You end up having to, and I'm not making this up, emulate a USB hub connected to multiple keyboards. It's absurd. And all because of the following: "However, the compatibility version of HID that all present systems implement limits USB keyboards to reporting a mere six regular keys together with four modifiers. Additional keys pressed beyond the limit will generally cause some of the other keys to be dropped." [http://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_blocking_and_ghosting#Interface-limited_NKRO http://deskthority.net/wiki/Rollover,_blocking_and_ghosting#...] "non-working n-key rollover with a USB connection is a side effect of the data packet." [http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5572.msg85020#msg85020 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=5572.msg85020#msg85020] (Effectively, instead of doing make:key / break:key packets, the compatibility version of HID does current_keys_pressed:[array of 6 keys]. Why they didn't stick with the make/break of the PS/2 protocol is beyond me.)

audunw 12y ago

If I were to build a keyboard I would definitely take a couple of ideas from typematrix. First of all, staggered keys make absolutely no sense(unles it's actually a typewriter). It takes a week to get used to a straight layout, and it feels more natural. It's not a problem to switch between staggered and matrix layouts either. Second thing I would copy is having enter and backspace between the two halves of the keyboard. If you touch type this area is unused, and it's less strain on your pinky finger. But anyway, this was really a great project, and a nice writeup :)

gurgus 12y ago
Thanks! A guy at my work has the typematrix keyboard - I like the idea but wasn't daring enough to go balls-to-the-wall and actually take that layout. He seems to like it, though!
- deckiedan 12y ago
  I have one at home that I use as my daily keyboard. It's pretty cool. One very nice thing is how quiet it is, especially with a 'skin' on it. One thing I really don't like about it is the lack of utilisation of the thumbs. I've been getting pain in (especially) my left thumb joint. I believe it's due to having to curl my thumb in to get to the meta / alt / windows keys. This was really bad on my work Microsoft keyboard, but isn't great on my typematrix either. I just got a second hand Kinesis Advantage keyboard for work, and really really like the thumb sections, and also the remapping support. In less than a week my thumb pain has cleared up quite a lot. I also really wish that the two sections on the typematrix were angled a bit outwards. It seems to work OK, since it's in rows it's a lot better than normal keyboards, but I feel that being able to spread my hands apart would be a good thing. I really really like the remapping support on the Kinesis advantage. I'm using the workman keyboard layout ( http://workmanlayout.com/ http://workmanlayout.com/ ) which seems to work very well for me. The biggest downside is the lack of native support for it. On the Advantage, I remapped it in about 45 seconds total, and now that keyboard works anywhere I plug it in, without needing any setup. Otherwise, though, I'm pretty happy with my typematrix. My wrist angles are waaay better than they ever were on a normal staggered qwerty keyboard. And it's so quiet I can type while my wife and baby are asleep on the couch right next to me without disturbing them. That certainly wasn't the case with my MS keyboards. I also really like how little desktop space it takes up - the mouse is now a lot closer and doesn't need a huge reach over to the side to pick up.

leoc 12y ago

'Tis pity. There's really no reason to go to all this effort and expense and not split the spacebar into left and right buttons, not add any other thumbable modifier keys, and worst, include neither a pointing stick nor a thumbable trackpad.

gurgus 12y ago
Hah, it's still early days man! This is the first build of many to come. As I stated in the blog post, this build was just to see if I was capable of doing it since most of the skills I didn't possess before starting the build. Now that I know how to do this sort of stuff I'm definitely going to be exploring all the things I can do in the future.

moron4hire 12y ago

Excellent build quality, but I was surprised by these two statements on things you need: A decent soldering iron. You will thank yourself later. Also note: you will burn yourself many times throughout the build. Might as well do it with a fancy iron! LEADED SOLDER – I started the build without leaded solder and oh dear… If you have a "decent soldering iron", then lead-free solder shouldn't be a problem. Also, if you live in the EU, leaded solder will be extremely difficult to come by. Well, even with a really crappy iron, as long as the tip is fresh, you shouldn't have a problem. Most people's problems with soldering come from not having the tip wet enough and not using enough solder, thereby not making enough contact with the wire and not putting heat into it fast enough to get that specific location hot before the heat conducts away into the rest of the wire. Remember, the entire reason we're using the wire is because it's an excellent conductor. For that reason, thicker gauge wire is also going to be more difficult to work. And the only reason to use larger gauges of wire is to support more current. Keyboards run on extremely little current already. You probably could have done this with magnet wire and been fine (though I wouldn't recommend it, magnet wire is difficult to work for different reasons). So crank up the heat. Get it into the wire as fast as possible. Lead-free solder generally needs higher heat than leaded solder anyway. Apply the solder, apply the wire, then wait a second before removing the iron, because you also have to heat the wire you're pushing in. Soldering is a chemical bond, the metals physically mix, and you need to get them up to the right heat to do that. And keep it steady, any movement while it is cooling will create microfractures in the solder joint.

gurgus 12y ago
Thanks for the tips! I found it very difficult to do the soldering due to an extremely unsteady hand and not a whole lot of experience. I 100% agree with everything you're saying though - I just ran with what I thought worked.
- michaelt 12y ago
  It looks, in the photos, like you were trying to solder together two diode leads in mid-air. The trick to soldering when you have unsteady hands is to set things up so if you press harder the two things being soldered make better contact, instead of being pushed apart. That way you can rest the tip of the iron on the workpiece. Soldering leads together in the air can be a right pain, because you can't press on hard without them moving apart. You can usually find tricks to avoid it though - like putting an old PCB and some packing material below the joint, so you have something to push against, and twisting the leads together so they can't move apart as easily.

userbinator 12y ago

if anyone doing a hand-wired build has a better/more efficient method of making the cables for the columns, please let me know Use self-fluxing enameled wire. It's insulated with an enamel that melts/converts into flux at soldering temperatures, so all you need to do is wrap a turn around the post of each switch contact for a column, then add solder to complete the connection. Some are sold in a convenient pencil-shaped dispenser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_pencil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiring_pencil ). I've always wanted to build a keyboard for fast typing, with ultra-light low-travel leaf-spring switches that have a more "bouncy" feel. When trying to type at 160WPM+ it matters far less what kind of sound or tactile feel the keys produce as you care more about the key actuating immediately when hit and providing some spring action to help the finger back up afterward. A leaf-mounted keycap has essentially no sliding friction, which means very little difference in force required between hitting it obliquely or perpendicularly. Isn't buying a premade MCU board for a "keyboard from scratch" cheating a little? I'd go with a deadbugged 8749 in a DIP-40 package, the classic MCU for a keyboard controller. :-)

gurgus 12y ago
Oh wow thanks for the wire tip! That will definitely make life easier :) As I say to everyone questioning whether to do a keyboard build (or any DIY project) - go for it! Let me know how you go :) edit: Didn't see your comments about the cheating bit. You are right, it probably was cheating a touch - it didn't quite occur to me until you said it. I'll see how I go with my next build and work out how to cheat a bit less, haha!
cyanoacry 12y ago
Self-fluxing enameled wire is great for more than just a simple keyboard project, too---it scales to microcontroller-scale projects, if you have enough patience: http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html http://elm-chan.org/docs/wire/wiring_e.html It's a good solution if you have some reason (money or time restrictions) that you can't order a PCB. The biggest downside of free-wiring like this though is that you don't have a whole lot of structural rigidity, but the steel that OP uses more than makes up for this.
slantyyz 12y ago

thisjepisje 12y ago

Now make a dictaphone :P For real though, here's another guy who makes keyboards: http://mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitch/ http://mykeyboard.co.uk/microswitch/ They're a bit weirder and with very light switches.

gurgus 12y ago
Wow those are some crazy keyboards!

mohamedattahri 12y ago

Reminds me of a beautiful quote: "If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you have to first build the universe."

gurgus 12y ago
Haha, I like it!

melling 12y ago

Has anyone built a DataHand or something else that "reinvents" the keyboard? This is already two decades old. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand

sparkie 12y ago
There's an ongoing effort by someone to recreate it: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0 http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=41422.0
- melling 12y ago
  Seems to be going slowly. This would be a great Kickstarter project. I'd buy one. Wonder how to gauge the actual Kickstarter interest before putting in the effort?
bestnoodles 12y ago
I've been interested by this project: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/70308014/kings-assembly-a-computer-mouse-full-of-awesome?ref=discovery https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/70308014/kings-assembly...

ghammy 12y ago

Dave Cooper as seen in Se110 and UCP120? Awesome build and write up mate! Very inspiring! :)

mercluke 12y ago
nah, it's not curtin dave. It's ECU dave

zokier 12y ago

Probably one of the first projects I'll make once I get my electronics workspace set up is a small keyboard based on TL1240 switches. Like OP, I have found the state of free CAD software bit disappointing, moreso for libre ones. So far my favorite has been the free 2D version of SolidEdge, but it has its quirks and like the name implies it doesn't do 3D at all.

pcl 12y ago

With a diode matrix, is it possible to distinguish multiple simultaneous key presses? And if not, how do you handle modifier keys? Looking at your photo, it would seem that they're wired into the matrix in the same fashion as the rest of the keys.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
wyager 12y ago
Yes, you can detect an arbitrary number of simultaneous keypresses. The only limitation is that you can only scan one of the dimensions in parallel.

zck 12y ago

If you're interested in soldering together a keyboard, but not having to design everything from scratch, it's worth checking out the Ergodox: http://ergodox.org/ http://ergodox.org/ . I built one a month ago, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's a two-piece keyboard with straight key columns, and six buttons for each thumb. You can order the parts on massdrop, when they start another order: https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?s=ergodox https://www.massdrop.com/buy/ergodox?s=ergodox It's not perfect, mind you: the thumb islands are three buttons wide, and my thumb rests on the innermost button. And I have hands larger than average; I don't know how someone with smaller hands would find the board. Also, because of the layout changes, some keys (the square braces, enter, - and =) have to be moved somewhere else; the buttons you're used to pressing just aren't there. There are some tiny parts; if you buy it, get a head-mounted magnifier with a light, like this one: http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magnifier/dp/B003UCODIA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1413732059&sr=8-2&keywords=soldering+magnifier http://www.amazon.com/SE-MH1047L-Illuminated-Multipower-Magn... . I don't know how I would've been able to surface-mount the tiny diodes without it. Obviously, the downside to having a keyboard with radically different placements of buttons is that going to other keyboards becomes difficult again. I haven't solved this problem, but might end up buying a second one for work.

ljk 12y ago
Are you familiar with the Kinesis Advantage keyboards? The keys are also separated into two sections but sitting on one keyboard, but no DIY needed. I just started using one recently, but never used ErgoDox before, and wanted to see if anyone has any experience with using both of them.
- scottjad 12y ago
  Anandtech reviewed both keyboards maybe a year ago and preferred the Kinesis Advantage FWIW. You could checkout their reviews to see why.
- zck 12y ago
  Yes, I tried that for a while, and didn't like it. Here's why: 1. It has Cherry MX Browns. I like more clickiness. 2. I found the curved alignment of the keys annoying. The thumb keys also felt off, but I don't recall how. 3. The remapping support for Kinesis is far inferior to Ergodox's. When I talked to tech support, they recommended using macros rather than remapping keys. This is because switching from Qwerty to Dvorak wipes any key remappings. Certainly I don't want to risk losing my keyboard layout, so macros are the way to go. But there's a maximum of 48 macros that can be stored, so you could only remap 48 keys. That's probably an acceptable limit if you don't need a bunch of extra macros. However, having a lot of macros means you might lose keystrokes^1. Compare this to the Ergodox, which lets you place any key anywhere with no downside other than your memory and ergonomics. You can also have multiple key layouts, and switch between them easily. 4. I was trying to switch to the Kinesis while at work, making it more frustrating when I was slow. I switched to the Ergodox at home, so I had more time. I also got the Ergodox after I tried the Kinesis, so some of the muscle memory was already entrenched when I got the Ergodox. 5. I borrowed the Kinesis, but bought and assembled the Ergodox. This means I was more invested in liking the Ergodox, whether or not it was actually better. [1] http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/support/technical-support/faqs-advantage-keyboard/ http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/support/technical-support/faqs-a... , the section "How do I switch between the macro memory configurations of 24, 36, or 48 macros?" states "Fast typists will often lose keystrokes from certain common words with the 48 macro setting, and very fast typists may even lose keystrokes using the 36 macro setting."

resca79 12y ago

I have not the competences to do something like that but in my opinion this is original hacking. In a small town of Sicily (near where I live) some guys are making incredible stuff with retro - computing[1]. They have restore hold computers like PDP11, apple one with all original components. [1] http://museo.freaknet.org/en http://museo.freaknet.org/en

robryk 12y ago

I think that it'd be feasible to "teach" the firmware assignment of pins to rows/columns by pressing the keys in sequence upon first startup. You could probably even get away with pressing every key in any order in the "teaching" step if you installed some precisely chosen diodes in reverse.

pistle 12y ago

OP. Consider using "spindly" or "strength-neglected" instead of "girly" arms when describing your weakness. Plenty of women have strong arms. You did a decent job of being inclusive except for that spot. Nice work on the keyboard and article.

michaelbuddy 12y ago

I wasn't necessarily expecting the parts for a keyboard build to be cheaper than an already assembled mechanical but that Gons site is selling keyboard kits for $470 !? That seems really high to me. I'm not even sure if that price includes everything you need to build on. I'm wondering how normal that is for this kind of thing or if you're kind of buying support along with the price, which would make it worth it I guess.

coryking 12y ago

This is quite an inspiring article, thanks! Your photography could be improved if you got a white sheet of paper or maybe some posterboard (eg: http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-economy-white-posterboard/ http://www.dickblick.com/products/blick-economy-white-poster...). Put that under and behind whatever you are taking a picture of and it will make a more neutral, less busy background. If you want to get more complicated, get a tripod. A good guide for taking your kind of photos is here: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+To+Take+Amazing+Photos/718 https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+To+Take+Amazing+Photos/718 Lastly, make sure to have a link to higher resolution pictures :-) Cheers!

rdc12 12y ago

I think this pretty cool, but I can't really see why you would be so conventional in a custom keyboard. I would end up remaking the space cadet or something similar I bet. I assume a modern linux install can handle the extra modifier keys