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From the article: We are excluded from voting on the issue: only few of us have the time and patience to interact with Debian on a voluntary basis. Using the s

by martin_ 12y ago

From the article: We are excluded from voting on the issue: only few of us have the time and patience to interact with Debian on a voluntary basis. Using the same argument, forking would seem like a horrible idea if there isn't active maintainers.

linuxydave 12y ago
I think their idea is to try get the ball rolling so that others will pick it up. Still a lazy idea if they don't have the time to maintain :(
vacri 12y ago
I saw that as a giant red warning flag as well. Why would I expect them to maintain a fork and ensure it has full sysv init support, if they don't even have the time to engage in the current process? It's all a bit overdramatic anyway - there are heaps of Debian forks; they're called 'downstream distros'. Ubuntu is one.
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- progman 12y ago
  > Why would I expect them to maintain a fork and ensure it has full sysv init support, if they don't even have the time to engage in the current process? Probably because they (experienced Unix veterans) realized that it makes much more sense to test the demand of a fork (that's what they made the website for) than to continue any useless discussion about systemd. Some systemd proponents obviously have serious problems to make a sober discussion anyway (interestingly also in a prominent German forum). Notice: "If SystemD will be substituting SystemV in Debian, we will fork the project and create a new distro: Pure Debian by Veteran Unix Admins. We hope this won't be necessary, but we are well prepared for it." They are not eager to make a fork but I think they will actually do it if necesary.
snogglethorpe 12y ago
The anti-systemd-brigade only seems to be a small minority of Debian devs (though they're very loud, and very persistent), so I'm not sure it would have much effect on the project as a whole. If a fork would reduce the time spent arguing about the init system (which 99% of users don't care about), it could even prove beneficial for Debian. [It seems unlikely the fork would attract the critical mass of devs/users to succeed on its own though.]
- 23david 12y ago
  Decoupling systemd is a feature desired by system administrators, who are responsible for installing and managing most debian and debian-based distros.
  - 0x006A 12y ago
    on the contrary, systemd is a feature desired by system administrators, who are responsible for installing and managing most debian and debian-based distros.
    - TheSwordsman 12y ago
      As someone who manages a large Debuntu fleet, please don't speak on my behalf. If I had the opportunity to vote for systemd it would have been 'no'.
      - pantalaimon 12y ago
        Have you ever used it?
        mverwijs 12y ago
        I have. I ran Arch for 3 years, up until 3 months after they implemented systemd. It made a KISS situation incredible complex. I switched back to Debian on my desktop after that. If Debian switches to systemd, I'll switch to Slackware, until SystemD has proven iteself to be stable and simple to administer. Not before.
forgottenpass 12y ago
Using the same argument, forking would seem like a horrible idea if there isn't active maintainers. Until I saw that line, I was thinking: well quit talking about doing it, and just do it! The idea of a non-systemd distribution in general is something I've been expecting to pop up for a while. And if the vocal people online represent a real desire not to switch, then one really should exist. Beyond that I'm rather uninterested in such a project one way or another. The trouble here is that the bulk of the work is just maintaining a changeset to debian packages. They haven't even spun up dak and friends, so I'm assuming this is DOA for now. It seems like a lot of hot air to pressure debian, or at the least attract contributions that can maintain their fork. Is "fork" a scary word to any DD, considering debian is already the upstream distribution for other, more popular, derivatives?
- vezzy-fnord 12y ago
  The idea of a non-systemd distribution in general is something I've been expecting to pop up for a while. There's already plenty of them.
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by martin_ 12y ago

linuxydave 12y ago

I think their idea is to try get the ball rolling so that others will pick it up. Still a lazy idea if they don't have the time to maintain :(

vacri 12y ago

I saw that as a giant red warning flag as well. Why would I expect them to maintain a fork and ensure it has full sysv init support, if they don't even have the time to engage in the current process? It's all a bit overdramatic anyway - there are heaps of Debian forks; they're called 'downstream distros'. Ubuntu is one.

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progman 12y ago
> Why would I expect them to maintain a fork and ensure it has full sysv init support, if they don't even have the time to engage in the current process? Probably because they (experienced Unix veterans) realized that it makes much more sense to test the demand of a fork (that's what they made the website for) than to continue any useless discussion about systemd. Some systemd proponents obviously have serious problems to make a sober discussion anyway (interestingly also in a prominent German forum). Notice: "If SystemD will be substituting SystemV in Debian, we will fork the project and create a new distro: Pure Debian by Veteran Unix Admins. We hope this won't be necessary, but we are well prepared for it." They are not eager to make a fork but I think they will actually do it if necesary.

snogglethorpe 12y ago

The anti-systemd-brigade only seems to be a small minority of Debian devs (though they're very loud, and very persistent), so I'm not sure it would have much effect on the project as a whole. If a fork would reduce the time spent arguing about the init system (which 99% of users don't care about), it could even prove beneficial for Debian. [It seems unlikely the fork would attract the critical mass of devs/users to succeed on its own though.]

23david 12y ago
Decoupling systemd is a feature desired by system administrators, who are responsible for installing and managing most debian and debian-based distros.
- 0x006A 12y ago
  on the contrary, systemd is a feature desired by system administrators, who are responsible for installing and managing most debian and debian-based distros.
  - TheSwordsman 12y ago
    As someone who manages a large Debuntu fleet, please don't speak on my behalf. If I had the opportunity to vote for systemd it would have been 'no'.
    - pantalaimon 12y ago
      Have you ever used it?
      - mverwijs 12y ago
        I have. I ran Arch for 3 years, up until 3 months after they implemented systemd. It made a KISS situation incredible complex. I switched back to Debian on my desktop after that. If Debian switches to systemd, I'll switch to Slackware, until SystemD has proven iteself to be stable and simple to administer. Not before.

forgottenpass 12y ago

Using the same argument, forking would seem like a horrible idea if there isn't active maintainers. Until I saw that line, I was thinking: well quit talking about doing it, and just do it! The idea of a non-systemd distribution in general is something I've been expecting to pop up for a while. And if the vocal people online represent a real desire not to switch, then one really should exist. Beyond that I'm rather uninterested in such a project one way or another. The trouble here is that the bulk of the work is just maintaining a changeset to debian packages. They haven't even spun up dak and friends, so I'm assuming this is DOA for now. It seems like a lot of hot air to pressure debian, or at the least attract contributions that can maintain their fork. Is "fork" a scary word to any DD, considering debian is already the upstream distribution for other, more popular, derivatives?

vezzy-fnord 12y ago
The idea of a non-systemd distribution in general is something I've been expecting to pop up for a while. There's already plenty of them.
- deleted 12y ago
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