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Here's a video from CMU TV of the sound cannon in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNcKexj2cYU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNcKexj2cYU I assume the r
by idm 17y ago
Here's a video from CMU TV of the sound cannon in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNcKexj2cYU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNcKexj2cYU
I assume the reasoning goes: if you want to stand around, you need to have a permit to do so... and you are free to apply for a permit, so there's your freedom to peaceably assemble.
Here's what the Pittsburgh Police have to say about it:
http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/police/html/spec_event_permit_app.html http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/police/html/spec_event_perm...
From Regulations (http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/police/assets/special_events_permit/Spec_Events_Regs_final_2009_fees_05-28-09.pdf http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/police/assets/special_event...)
II.k. First Amendment Activity. “First Amendment Activity” includes all expressive and associative activity that is protected by the United States and Pennsylvania Constitutions, including speech, press, assembly, and/or the right to petition. For purposes of Chapter 471 and these Regulations, commercial advertising that is regulated by the Zoning Ordinance or elsewhere in the City Code is excluded from this definition.
II.p. Public Assembly. “Public Assembly” means a group activity including but not limited to a demonstration, march, meeting, parade, protest, rally, or vigil which involves the expression of opinions or grievances of persons for a common purpose as a result of prior planning and which interferes or has a tendency to interfere with the normal flow or regulation of pedestrian or vehicular traffic upon the streets, parks, sidewalks, or other public grounds within the City or does not comply with normal and usual traffic, regulations or controls; or which occupies any public area open to the general public to the exclusion of others.
So it seems like the kids standing around in the video would not have been breaking the law if:
1) they were organized
2) someone applied 14 days in advance
3) they paid $125 for the application
But wait! On page 22, Exhibit A-3 provides examples:
"First amendment activity that does not constitute a Special Event (e.g. does not block a sidewalk or close down a street). Example: Sidewalk protest in front of the County Courthouse; Leafleting or gathering petition signatures on Grant Street. Permit Required? No. Fee Required? No."
So, perhaps if those kids were standing on the grass instead of the sidewalk? In that case, they wouldn't even need a permit. i.e. they wouldn't need permission... i.e. they would be _free_ to assemble...
...and in fact, they would be free to assemble even if they were on a sidewalk, according to Exhibit A-3.
So I'm confused here. In the video I linked, did they require permission to stand around like that? Were they breaking any laws at all? Would it have somehow been _more_ legal if they were organized, and had applied for a permit?
Essentially, the question is: how could they have continued to stand around without the police shooting them with the sound cannon?
EDIT: ...and another question: is it really freedom if you need permission? For example, you never need to ask permission to say something, irrespective of there potentially being consequences for certain kinds of speech (e.g. slander, which might land you in court).
If your freedom to assemble is contingent upon anything (e.g. permission, which isn't guaranteed) then it's not really "free as in libre," is it? ...and if your freedom to assemble is contingent upon an application fee, then it's not "free as in gratis" either. So is it free at all?
- vaksel 17y agopretty much you can peacefully assemble as long as noone causes trouble, the second someone starts shit, you lose your right. i.e. this whole thing started because a couple of anarchists lit a garbage can on fire and rolled it towards the cops. At that point the cops pretty much got open season to do whatever they could to everyone around. So a peaceful protest of thousands of people can get disbanded because of a few assholes. Which would make it obvious that getting a few provocateurs is the best way to disband any protest you don't agree with.
- idm 17y agoThe "agent provocateurs" got a whole thread on the slashdot link - it's a tactic that has been used more and more frequently, it seems. I was one of the bloggers who identified the agents in the Quebec SPP protest (look up "put the rock down man") - in that case, the ONLY violent actors were undercover police officers. It ended up being pretty funny, in a gut wrenching sort of way, with the protesters actually pacifying the police. ...but in the CMU TV video, there were no "anarchists." There were no burning trash cans. That was a different part of town, on a different night.
- vaksel 17y agoyeah that's what I meant, the rolling trash can happened across town, and the cops used that as an excuse to crack down everywhere else
- idm 17y agoWell - and I'm not implying that you necessarily subscribe to that justification, but - I don't buy it. There are already laws that grant the authority to shut down a town if it erupts into riots. I can't cite those laws, but I bet the LA riots or Hurricane Katrina would be cases where they were used.
- rms 17y agoIn this specific case, the action in Oakland, on the campus of the University of Pittsburgh, on Thursday and then repeated almost exactly on Friday night, unfolded because Schenley Plaza officially closes at 11PM. I have never heard of this before and the Plaza certainly sees use after 11PM on a weekend night. The protestors/students/bystanders were forced away from Schenley Plaza at 11PM, pushed deeper on campus. This led to an actual assault on the dorms of the University of Pittsburgh. See this note about a poor, brave student arrested for trying to keep her comrades safe from the police. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=847898 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=847898