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TL/DR: IF YOU WANT A GOOD RAISE, GET A COMPETING OFFER. It's absolutely true. Employers really don't want to screw employees, they just have no true measure of

TL/DR: IF YOU WANT A GOOD RAISE, GET A COMPETING OFFER. It's absolutely true. Employers really don't want to screw employees, they just have no true measure of your value. They have to use your most recent pay, YOUR OTHER OFFERS, industry stats, and a biased set of personal anecdotes to ballpark a placeholder when you get hired, because there really is no other information. Once you are hired, your manager never thinks about your salary. Until he has to, like annual reviews. OR YOU HAVE A COMPETING OFFER. And during annual reviews, he's given one bucket of raise that he needs to divvy up among his staff. There isn't a lot to go around, nor any way to handle special cases. That's just the way it works. If you want a good raise, get a competing offer.

vinceguidry 12y ago
I've heard this advocated a lot, but I find it hard to do in the case where you really don't want to leave your company, but do need to correct your salary. Because it requires engaging with other companies on less than good faith that you're really motivated to jump to another job. Sure, if you're a sociopath, this won't be a problem for you. As someone in this exact position, my solution was to ask for a raise, and when they said no, I considered trying to make a quick move. But after realizing that I really don't want to job hunt right this moment, I put my head down and went back to work. I think in order to get to that point in your career where you can easily have multiple competing offers to choose from, you need to be a really good developer with a spiffy-looking portfolio. Takes time to get there, and beating the bushes to get offers just doesn't appeal to me, and probably won't until I've fine-tuned my development process to where I can whip up websites like no tomorrow. My job is Good Enough for the moment, yours might be too if you think about it. Oh and parent comment presented his opinion as a TL:DR of the OP, when in fact it's just his opinion. The OP is nuanced and quite worth the read.
- sheepmullet 12y ago
  "I think in order to get to that point in your career where you can easily have multiple competing offers to choose from, you need to be a really good developer with a spiffy-looking portfolio." Not true at all. Development is currently a hot market and you can get competing job offers right now without any portfolio as an average developer. If you wait a few years development might not be such a great market and you might not get a raise even if you are a much better developer.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- kelnos 12y ago
  ... it requires engaging with other companies on less than good faith that you're really motivated to jump to another job. This is what bothers me most about this sort of advice. As someone who is often trying to hire people, it's a lot of effort to get a candidate through the pipeline to the point where an offer is made. Intentionally causing people at another company to waste that kind of effort would make me feel like I was doing something unethical. I really don't think you should look for a competing offer unless you're willing to accept that offer if you don't get what you want from your current employer. As someone in this exact position, my solution was to ask for a raise, and when they said no, I considered trying to make a quick move. But after realizing that I really don't want to job hunt right this moment, I put my head down and went back to work. Yeah, I think that's just the value judgment everyone has to make. Either you get another offer and are willing to walk if it's not met, or you're willing to wait it out and see if you can get a better raise later. It's a personal decision based on your circumstances. Oh and parent comment presented his opinion as a TL:DR of the OP, when in fact it's just his opinion. The OP is nuanced and quite worth the read. I think the parent was actually tl;dr'ing his own post up front.
  - sheepmullet 12y ago
    "As someone who is often trying to hire people, it's a lot of effort to get a candidate through the pipeline to the point where an offer is made." Then make sure your staff aren't forced to get a competing offer just to get market rates. "Intentionally causing people at another company to waste that kind of effort would make me feel like I was doing something unethical" The vast majority of people applying for roles will switch if the offer is right. Sure if you offer 10% more I'd much rather just get my current employer to match... but if you offer 30+% then we have a deal. I don't want to stay with an employer who will underpay me by so much.
    - kelnos 12y ago
      Then make sure your staff aren't forced to get a competing offer just to get market rates. I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said. I'm talking about the cost in time and effort to hire someone, not to retain them. (Regardless, I have no say or control over salaries, so I can't do much about this.) The vast majority of people applying for roles will switch if the offer is right. Sure if you offer 10% more I'd much rather just get my current employer to match... but if you offer 30+% then we have a deal. I don't want to stay with an employer who will underpay me by so much. Eh, maybe. I'm not sure I agree. Even if I was feeling underpaid at my current company, it'd have to be a ridiculously sweet deal to get me to move (I mean, so sweet that no one would ever offer me something like that). I have enough forms of attachment other than salary that even say a 50% raise would be unlikely to get me to budge. I think there are quite a few people who feel similarly. And that's what I object to: someone shopping around with zero intention of accepting another job, but only doing so to use as leverage with their current employer. Yeah, "it's just business", but the people at these other companies whose time you're wasting are real people who don't deserve to be jerked around.

vinceguidry 12y ago

I've heard this advocated a lot, but I find it hard to do in the case where you really don't want to leave your company, but do need to correct your salary. Because it requires engaging with other companies on less than good faith that you're really motivated to jump to another job. Sure, if you're a sociopath, this won't be a problem for you. As someone in this exact position, my solution was to ask for a raise, and when they said no, I considered trying to make a quick move. But after realizing that I really don't want to job hunt right this moment, I put my head down and went back to work. I think in order to get to that point in your career where you can easily have multiple competing offers to choose from, you need to be a really good developer with a spiffy-looking portfolio. Takes time to get there, and beating the bushes to get offers just doesn't appeal to me, and probably won't until I've fine-tuned my development process to where I can whip up websites like no tomorrow. My job is Good Enough for the moment, yours might be too if you think about it. Oh and parent comment presented his opinion as a TL:DR of the OP, when in fact it's just his opinion. The OP is nuanced and quite worth the read.

sheepmullet 12y ago
"I think in order to get to that point in your career where you can easily have multiple competing offers to choose from, you need to be a really good developer with a spiffy-looking portfolio." Not true at all. Development is currently a hot market and you can get competing job offers right now without any portfolio as an average developer. If you wait a few years development might not be such a great market and you might not get a raise even if you are a much better developer.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
kelnos 12y ago
... it requires engaging with other companies on less than good faith that you're really motivated to jump to another job. This is what bothers me most about this sort of advice. As someone who is often trying to hire people, it's a lot of effort to get a candidate through the pipeline to the point where an offer is made. Intentionally causing people at another company to waste that kind of effort would make me feel like I was doing something unethical. I really don't think you should look for a competing offer unless you're willing to accept that offer if you don't get what you want from your current employer. As someone in this exact position, my solution was to ask for a raise, and when they said no, I considered trying to make a quick move. But after realizing that I really don't want to job hunt right this moment, I put my head down and went back to work. Yeah, I think that's just the value judgment everyone has to make. Either you get another offer and are willing to walk if it's not met, or you're willing to wait it out and see if you can get a better raise later. It's a personal decision based on your circumstances. Oh and parent comment presented his opinion as a TL:DR of the OP, when in fact it's just his opinion. The OP is nuanced and quite worth the read. I think the parent was actually tl;dr'ing his own post up front.
- sheepmullet 12y ago
  "As someone who is often trying to hire people, it's a lot of effort to get a candidate through the pipeline to the point where an offer is made." Then make sure your staff aren't forced to get a competing offer just to get market rates. "Intentionally causing people at another company to waste that kind of effort would make me feel like I was doing something unethical" The vast majority of people applying for roles will switch if the offer is right. Sure if you offer 10% more I'd much rather just get my current employer to match... but if you offer 30+% then we have a deal. I don't want to stay with an employer who will underpay me by so much.
  - kelnos 12y ago
    Then make sure your staff aren't forced to get a competing offer just to get market rates. I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said. I'm talking about the cost in time and effort to hire someone, not to retain them. (Regardless, I have no say or control over salaries, so I can't do much about this.) The vast majority of people applying for roles will switch if the offer is right. Sure if you offer 10% more I'd much rather just get my current employer to match... but if you offer 30+% then we have a deal. I don't want to stay with an employer who will underpay me by so much. Eh, maybe. I'm not sure I agree. Even if I was feeling underpaid at my current company, it'd have to be a ridiculously sweet deal to get me to move (I mean, so sweet that no one would ever offer me something like that). I have enough forms of attachment other than salary that even say a 50% raise would be unlikely to get me to budge. I think there are quite a few people who feel similarly. And that's what I object to: someone shopping around with zero intention of accepting another job, but only doing so to use as leverage with their current employer. Yeah, "it's just business", but the people at these other companies whose time you're wasting are real people who don't deserve to be jerked around.