4 ms·

> it's your only reasonable option to actually get a couch that you don't pull directly out of the landfill. Except that isn't even remotely true.

cookiecaper 12y ago
I think it can be remotely true. You could say they could go to a garage sale, and they may find something acceptable at a reasonable price, but what if they don't have a vehicle large enough to transport it or people to help load and unload it? Most RTO places offer delivery, and most garage sales don't. It's more or less the same case with Craigslist; while your chances of finding someone willing to make delivery may increase, you only have a crappy photo taken with a potato to try to decide if you want it or not. Compare to buying a couch like a normal person at a normal furniture retailer. If you have the income to sustain the payments and know that you'll be paying more in the long run, it's a tradeoff some people are willing to make. Most of the time, you can pay off rentals early. The same kind of shenanigans go on with any financial instrument when one is considered "high risk". Credit cards charge ~30% APR until you have a well-established credit history. Car loans cost 15-20%. In any of these cases, you're a fool if you let the full term run out at those rates. You could say that someone doesn't need a car to get by, but it sure helps a lot, and so does a decent bed if someone is trying to get a good night's rest and be functional for work the next day. RTO does serve a legitimate purpose. It's just expensive, but sometimes that tradeoff can be reasonable.
- Encosia 12y ago
  You can rent a truck at Home Depot for $20 that will haul a couch.
  - cookiecaper 12y ago
    Yes, some people can rent a truck (also, I don't think it's $20 in real life; probably $50 minimum, my real guess would be more like $70-$100 when all is said and done). You need any or all of a valid in-state driver's license, your own insurance, a good idea that it'll only take you an hour to find a good couch so that your money isn't wasted on a truck rental and/or a hope that the garage sale that has a good, affordable couch will be willing to hold it until you get back with a truck, and, perhaps most significant, is that you need people to help you load and unload it. (Yes, yes, I know that in many parts of the country you can hire the Mexicans loitering in front of Home Depot for $5/head/hour, but that adds more expense and is possibly much riskier, since you're letting those people know where you live, know that you live alone or at least don't have sufficient help to move your own couch in, and know what kind of stuff is in your dwelling space. The furniture store delivery guy learns all of this too, but he's much better documented and therefore probably easier to track down if things go wrong.) You'd also have to hope that the couch remains in good condition for a reasonable length of time, whereas most RTO places will have some kind of recourse if you get a lemon. Yes, it's true that it's probably possible to get a couch without going through a RTO contract if you have the money to make RTO payments. That doesn't mean it's reasonable, plausible, or even just worth all the extra effort. If you need a couch now and can pay it off a few payments down the road, it's not so bad to be willing to pay a substantial expense for that convenience. As long as the consumer is informed, there's no reason this voluntary trade of security/convenience for money shouldn't be allowed or performed. Of course it'd be cheaper if the consumer had access to cheaper credit, but they don't, so these places have sprung up to help/serve those people. Again, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that. It's just expensive (for both parties).
    - Encosia 12y ago
      For what it's worth, I rented a Home Depot truck just a few days after posting that, and it really was $19 for the first 75 minutes (plus sales tax). I know because I was doing exactly what some people in this thread would suggest. We moved to a new house Wednesday and needed a gas dryer instead of electric. Though we could afford the $2k for a nice new set, I looked around and found a great deal on a barely used pair that an elderly couple had to put in storage when they downsized. I rented a Home Depot truck while movers were still loading up at the old house, met the folks at their storage unit with their son to help me load it, got the W/D loaded up, and brought it over to the new house while the movers were still there so that they could unload and hook it up. I ended up saving about a thousand dollars and helped out some nice folks who were happy to not need to pay for the storage unit anymore. You're right about the insurance and valid license being a requirement for a rental, of course. Around here, that's a pretty low bar because almost everyone drives (and I'd bet the people in the article drive too). I could see that being an issue in places where public transit was half decent and people didn't drive. On the other hand, a fair number of people in blue collar work (like at least the one guy in that article) have easier access to work trucks than most of us. I'm well aware of and thankful for how privileged I am to be able to maneuver without as much financial pressure as the people in the article. On the other hand, if my time was only exchangeable for minimum wage, saving four figures would be well worth the time and effort of arranging something like a Craigslist purchase.

cookiecaper 12y ago

I think it can be remotely true. You could say they could go to a garage sale, and they may find something acceptable at a reasonable price, but what if they don't have a vehicle large enough to transport it or people to help load and unload it? Most RTO places offer delivery, and most garage sales don't. It's more or less the same case with Craigslist; while your chances of finding someone willing to make delivery may increase, you only have a crappy photo taken with a potato to try to decide if you want it or not. Compare to buying a couch like a normal person at a normal furniture retailer. If you have the income to sustain the payments and know that you'll be paying more in the long run, it's a tradeoff some people are willing to make. Most of the time, you can pay off rentals early. The same kind of shenanigans go on with any financial instrument when one is considered "high risk". Credit cards charge ~30% APR until you have a well-established credit history. Car loans cost 15-20%. In any of these cases, you're a fool if you let the full term run out at those rates. You could say that someone doesn't need a car to get by, but it sure helps a lot, and so does a decent bed if someone is trying to get a good night's rest and be functional for work the next day. RTO does serve a legitimate purpose. It's just expensive, but sometimes that tradeoff can be reasonable.

Encosia 12y ago
You can rent a truck at Home Depot for $20 that will haul a couch.
- cookiecaper 12y ago
  Yes, some people can rent a truck (also, I don't think it's $20 in real life; probably $50 minimum, my real guess would be more like $70-$100 when all is said and done). You need any or all of a valid in-state driver's license, your own insurance, a good idea that it'll only take you an hour to find a good couch so that your money isn't wasted on a truck rental and/or a hope that the garage sale that has a good, affordable couch will be willing to hold it until you get back with a truck, and, perhaps most significant, is that you need people to help you load and unload it. (Yes, yes, I know that in many parts of the country you can hire the Mexicans loitering in front of Home Depot for $5/head/hour, but that adds more expense and is possibly much riskier, since you're letting those people know where you live, know that you live alone or at least don't have sufficient help to move your own couch in, and know what kind of stuff is in your dwelling space. The furniture store delivery guy learns all of this too, but he's much better documented and therefore probably easier to track down if things go wrong.) You'd also have to hope that the couch remains in good condition for a reasonable length of time, whereas most RTO places will have some kind of recourse if you get a lemon. Yes, it's true that it's probably possible to get a couch without going through a RTO contract if you have the money to make RTO payments. That doesn't mean it's reasonable, plausible, or even just worth all the extra effort. If you need a couch now and can pay it off a few payments down the road, it's not so bad to be willing to pay a substantial expense for that convenience. As long as the consumer is informed, there's no reason this voluntary trade of security/convenience for money shouldn't be allowed or performed. Of course it'd be cheaper if the consumer had access to cheaper credit, but they don't, so these places have sprung up to help/serve those people. Again, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that. It's just expensive (for both parties).
  - Encosia 12y ago
    For what it's worth, I rented a Home Depot truck just a few days after posting that, and it really was $19 for the first 75 minutes (plus sales tax). I know because I was doing exactly what some people in this thread would suggest. We moved to a new house Wednesday and needed a gas dryer instead of electric. Though we could afford the $2k for a nice new set, I looked around and found a great deal on a barely used pair that an elderly couple had to put in storage when they downsized. I rented a Home Depot truck while movers were still loading up at the old house, met the folks at their storage unit with their son to help me load it, got the W/D loaded up, and brought it over to the new house while the movers were still there so that they could unload and hook it up. I ended up saving about a thousand dollars and helped out some nice folks who were happy to not need to pay for the storage unit anymore. You're right about the insurance and valid license being a requirement for a rental, of course. Around here, that's a pretty low bar because almost everyone drives (and I'd bet the people in the article drive too). I could see that being an issue in places where public transit was half decent and people didn't drive. On the other hand, a fair number of people in blue collar work (like at least the one guy in that article) have easier access to work trucks than most of us. I'm well aware of and thankful for how privileged I am to be able to maneuver without as much financial pressure as the people in the article. On the other hand, if my time was only exchangeable for minimum wage, saving four figures would be well worth the time and effort of arranging something like a Craigslist purchase.